Personal penalties When to give a Personal Penalty, and which one?

Discussion in 'Outdoor Umpiring Questions & General Chat' started by Peckerwood Hockey, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. Peckerwood Hockey

    Peckerwood Hockey FHF Starter

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    Watching EuroHockey lately, there were considerably more personal penalties for technical offences than I've seen before. Admittedly I usually play club hockey, and fouls for technical offences are generally due to poor skill.

    It got me thinking, when should a green, 5 minute yellow, and ten minute yellow, and even a red, be given to a player, and under what circumstances? Some offences I saw in the EuroHockey tournament, I've seen go without a personal penalty at club level.

    I understand the notion of, if a player repeats the same offence, they should be warned, green card, yellow card, etc. But are there any specific offences that warrant an automatic green card, five minute yellow, and ten minute yellow. Also, how do you differentiate between a five minute yellow and a ten minute yellow?

    Before anyone says it, I'm not going to go out next week and start flashing the cards for every technical offence on the field, I'm merely trying to improve my understanding of the game.
     
  2. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

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    On general principle,
    • GC for technical offences.
    • 5mYC for careless, breakdown, and repeated technical offences.
    • 10mYC for reckless, and dangerous physical offences, and abuse.
    • RC: violence, and repeated YC offences.
    To elaborate,
    • Technical is things like a stick check, FH interference, minor elbows or pushing, throwing a stick, captain not fulfilling responsibility, dissent.
    • Careless is things like tripping a player in tackles or swinging sticks high near players.
    • Breakdown is things like hitting away a ball at FH inside the 23MA, deliberate foot or body stopping ball, stick hacks after being beaten.
    • Reckless/Dangerous physical is things like swinging a stick into a player for no good reason, sliding and taking them down, dumptrucking opponents who get mixed up in a tackle.
    • Abuse is "fighting words" or actual contact not rising to violence, at a player or official or spectator.
    • Violence is hitting or punching or kicking a player or official or spectator.
    Note that there are a lot of incidents that don't fit exactly onto one of these types - maybe into none, maybe into two or three, maybe several are tangled together.

    A lot of things might drop or raise a level depending on the match context and the incident context, so if you think of each category of thing as a region drawn on a scale, the regions can smudge across the lines between different penalties.

    Match context includes the importance of the game for external reasons, the history between teams, the current scores and time remaining, whether a power play is on. Incident context includes the relative position of players, timing of whistles, where the ball is on the field and where it's going, whether the team has a GK or PWGKP or all fieldies, has this player done that thing before, what happened in the last few seconds prior, and the apparent intent of each player involved. There's a lot more besides this, which might also be relevant, and some or many of these things might not be.

    While there is almost no automatic card (GK breaking at PS twice and captains egregiously not fulfilling responsibility being the sole exception, I think) there are some things that you must have an extremely good reason to give a lesser penalty for (these usually being 10mYC- and RC-level offences).

    While we as a group can usually look at an incident and say "we would give XC because reasons" there are often a lot of important details that modify the decision, and the same umpire may be ale to justify two or three different card responses to the same incident. The best you can do is look at other umpires giving or averting cards over a range of similar situations, and ask "why or why not?" to decide for yourself. Then see if you're consistent with other umpires, and find out why there's a difference if any.
     
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  3. aussieump

    aussieump FHF All Time Great
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    One simple way to learn is to go through a process of "What is your decision and then Why"
    Eg Attacker is tackled by defender and defender makes contact with the attackers sick 1/3 the way up the stick.
    FHA is your decision,
    Why: would be due to a stick check that was 1/3 up the stick,
    Was the tackle deserving of a personal penalty for such a bad tackle, if yes then what level of personal penalty.
    If lack of skill lower should it be a quick word, or GC or YC
    If intentional YC
     
  4. careeman

    careeman FHF Legend

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    These categories from @Nij are a pretty good guide.
    I'm less sure about the elaborations as for me Reckless/Dangerous physical is things like swinging a stick into a player for no good reason is potentially a RC not a 10 mins YC but.............

    This highlights my personality and tolerance and how despite a common set of rules my interpretation can and will vary from other umpires.

    For applying degrees of personal penalty look at the what and the why like @aussieump says.
    A last ditch tackle by a defender on the edge of the D that breaks down play and denies a circle entry and shot is much more likely a YC than a poorly time stretch tackle on the halfway line which could be a GC.

    Context and intent are very important and yes you will have to make a judgement on the level of intent based on what you see happen.
     
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  5. Peckerwood Hockey

    Peckerwood Hockey FHF Starter

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    I have experience of officiating in another sport at a high level, and I think that's a very good explanation. Clear to understand, and I agree with regards to the lines being blurred and the umpire should make an overall judgement with regards to game context, management and, obviously, severity of the offence.

    In addition, how would an umpire signal to differentiate between a 5mYC and a 10mYC?
     
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  6. toonboon

    toonboon FHF Reserve Player

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    By speaking, with the mouth.
     
  7. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

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    We communicate this in national, regional and local competitions by holding up fingers to the technical bench.
    Both hands with all fingers spread for a 10mYC, very clearly one hand with all fingers and one hand either down or with no fingers for a 5mYC.
    There is also a "standing order" that if no signal comes before the umpire carries on with play, that it must be a 5mYC.
    A verbal statement to nearby players often complements the hand signal.
     
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  8. Pippinn

    Pippinn FHF Starter

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    As a query what would signal for a longer yc? ie the player begins to argue and continues to do so after you explain they can't change it, or would you go for a rc or would you just card the captain?

    Sent from my Vodafone Smart ultra 6 using Tapatalk
     
  9. Bondy

    Bondy FHF Legend

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    While there is technically no maximum time for a YC, I would suggest that if 10 minutes isn't long enough, you should be thinking about a different card...
     
  10. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

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    I don't explain that they can't change it because they already know this fact. The point is to avoid arguments, not start them. Anything more than a blunt instruction to get off the field is too much talking (and even that is a lot).

    If the card is still out of my pocket, I keep it held up, and gesture it towards the dugout. Small extra management tools include shaking the head firmly, giving a death stare, and waving away the player with the other hand, as appropriate.

    Definitely do not approach them or square up to them or move quickly, this only encourages reciprocal aggression and makes situations worse.

    If they keep going, double-blast the whistle and either change the card up by a level or, if the original was a 5mYC, signal that it's now a 10mYC.

    I try to avoid using the captain when it's just one player being stupid, and you should never card them without a chance to fix it first, but it really depends on who you have available. Some captains only need to be looked at, others are just as bad, and of course some will be the one getting binned.

    Focus on the result you want (player shut up and go away), then use the lowest tool or combination of tools that will achieve it.
     
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  11. Pippinn

    Pippinn FHF Starter

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    I'll get on practicing my death stare then =)

    Sent from my Vodafone Smart ultra 6 using Tapatalk
     

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