When can a PS be awarded?

Discussion in 'PS and Goalkeeping' started by CardHappy, Feb 18, 2008.

  1. CardHappy

    CardHappy FHF Legend

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    Ok, guys (and gals). This actually occured in my game on Sunday. Fortunately the decision given did not affect the result of the game (in so far as who won), but could quite easily have been.

    The description of the event I am about to give you was agreed by all players and both umpires after the match.

    An attacker was in the D going towards the goal along the base line. The keeper was on his near post and there was another forward 2 yards off the line in the middle of the goal with a defender between him and his colleague with the ball. The guy with the ball got up to the keeper and slipped the ball back towards his colleague totally taking the keeper out of the game. The defender then made a legitimate attempt to play the ball but missed and the ball accidentally hit his foot. The other attacker was directly behind the defender and would have only needed to knock the ball uncontested into the net.

    What decision would you give and why... but just to add something into the mix can I remind you of a rule..

    12.4 A penalty stroke is awarded :

    a for an offence by a defender in the circle which prevents the probable scoring of a goal


    I shall let you know what was given later...
     
  2. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    I'd say that's a stroke...

    but it probably depends where the attackedr with the ball was in relation to the goal line when the defender kicked it - if he was some way out from it then probably a short.
     
  3. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    I would say it can only be a PC.

    The intended recipient of the pass might have missed it, or miscued his shot, or anything. (And I appreciate that the rule says 'probable', not 'definite' scoring of a goal, but there are just too many variables for me.)

    Great question though!
     
  4. Twister

    Twister FHF Regular Player

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    I agree with Red. Too much doubt for it to be a PS.
     
  5. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Yes great question, but despite CH's detailed description I can't be as certain as Philthy or Red unless I was there...

    I would hope that, if the foot was accidental, I would hold the whistle for advantage to develop. Maybe the defender would stop playing, and attacker B would score.
    I wouldn't give a PS for a 'prevents a probable goal', but might decide the foot was intentional against attacker B's opportunity to play the ball. But that would be harsh... Too much doubt, as Twister says.

    So if advantage doesn't get the a goal, then PC is most likely.
     
  6. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    I agree with red, Twister, Diligent... "probable" to me means that the ball is probably on it's way over the goal line, not that the ball is definitely on its way to somebody who should put it over the goal line.

    When in doubt, then PC is the right decision.
     
  7. Magpie

    Magpie Administrator
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    PC as you described it was accidental, however if the defender deliberatley stuck their foot out to stop the ball then a PS.
     
  8. aussieump

    aussieump FHF All Time Great
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    From the OP most likely a PC not a PS, I do have one question

    When you say quote" The guy with the ball got up to the keeper and slipped the ball back towards his colleague totally taking the keeper out of the game.

    Do you mean eliminated him from the contest by the pass or ran through him totally taking the GK out of play, if it was the later fhd

    The accidental breach that you are taking about in this instance still relies on at least another play of the ball so not a probable goal but a possible scoring chance
     
  9. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    AU, I was talking with CardHappy on the phone about the incident and when he says "totally taking the GK out of the play", he means it as in the GK was beaten by the pass and was no longer in a position to make an impact on the play. That's what we get for using colloquialisms! lol
     
  10. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    Just two questions...
    1. was the game played on a good artificial turf?
    2. was the pace of the pass such that the receiving attacker would probably have been able to control it?
     
  11. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Justin

    I'm pretty sure that this would have been an English National League game, so I suspect that the answer to both your questions will be yes.
     
  12. CardHappy

    CardHappy FHF Legend

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    Hmmm, some pretty interesting answers and I tend to agree with all of them. I know that sounds strange especially as some of the answers seem to contradict.

    My gut feeling at the time was PC (after waiting to see if there was an advantage!!!). However, a number of players asked the question about stroke and I couldn't really give them a good answer as to why not apart from the guy wasn't definately going to score. Their reply (quite cleverly for players :rolleyes:) was it was probable not definite!

    If I was them I would be asking the question and if the score had been 3 all ( instead of 4-3)with a few seconds less I feel I might have been quite vociferous! :yes:

    The final decision was PC, but I ask you would PS really have been that wrong? IMHO the guy would have scored 85/95 times out of a hundred from 4 yards into an open net from his position ... is that not probable enough?

    Strangely enough there was an ex FIH umpire watching (his son playing) on the sidelines. In the bar afterwards he said he had been screaming for a PS and explaining all the points I have already mentioned. He listened to what we had to say and I then asked him what he would have given... his reply was PC everytime!! :rolleyes: ???
     
  13. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    And how is Mr Little these days CH...!?

    So, the upshot of all this is that a PC is the best decision to give in this situation?
     
  14. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    Only if you take notice of what FIH and ex-FIH umpires say ;)
     
  15. Jay

    Jay Guest

    If the defender was on the line then yeah, PS. However my decision would have been a PC as the foot was accidental and there was no intent. As agreed with the more experienced umpires on here there would have been too many variables and there is no saying the attacker wouldn't have fluffed his lines.
     
  16. Goggs

    Goggs FHF Newbie

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    Surely it had to be offside!!!! :rolleyes: :eek:
     
  17. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Nah - he was behind the ball when it was played Goggs. ;)

     

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