What is a stick ring used for?

Discussion in 'Outdoor Umpiring Questions' started by Patrick121916, May 18, 2014.

  1. Patrick121916

    Patrick121916 FHF Super Star

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,287
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    Hobart, Australia
    I've found a mercian 51 mm AHA approved stick ring at the hockey centre. Is it worth keeping or binning? Could someone please explain what it's used for and how to use it?
    image.jpg image.jpg
    Sorry about the picture quality.
     
  2. Gilly

    Gilly FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    308
    Location:
    Peterborough
    As per rule 4.7b
     
  3. NicfromSweden

    NicfromSweden FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    9,662
    Likes Received:
    241
    Location:
    Göteborg Sweden
    I get to see them about once or twice every season at the Euro events but these days it seems more important to measure the bow
     
  4. SPetitt

    SPetitt FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,379
    Likes Received:
    338
    Location:
    Gloucestershire, Buckinghamshire & Costa del Sol
    I'd keep it, just in case your attention is drawn to an apparently over-size stick ... there's no harm in having it in your bag.
     
  5. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    444
    I agree the bow measure is more use these days (particularly at non-international/national level) where players are less likely to expect the sticks to be checked and may "cook" their own stick up, perhaps using steam on a wooden stick or one of the (now banned) big bow ones from a few years back.

    I carry a stick ring but I don't remember seeing any stick I really felt needed to measure with the ring
     
  6. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    4,121
    Likes Received:
    881
    Location:
    Hampshire (South Coast of England)
    Most ordinary umpires are best to avoid any involvement in checking sticks. My stick ring is tucked well to the back of a seldom used drawer, so if anyone asks, it's: "Oh dear, I don't seem to have it with me today".
     
    Wrighty1994 likes this.
  7. SPetitt

    SPetitt FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,379
    Likes Received:
    338
    Location:
    Gloucestershire, Buckinghamshire & Costa del Sol
    Why?
     
  8. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    444
    Yes I was going to ask that question, I don't see the reasoning of going out of the way to avoid having kit that can enforce a rule or confirm a stick is legit (though again, the bow measure is more useful really)?

    If it stops a player cheating, even for 1 game, then carrying around 200g of metal surely outweighs the downside of seeming to not have all your kit?
     
  9. NicfromSweden

    NicfromSweden FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    9,662
    Likes Received:
    241
    Location:
    Göteborg Sweden
    It is because if you check one stick and it will not pass the player will demand all sticks to be checked, he will probably also want you to check the bows of all sticks as well and do you got the equipment for that as well?
     
    redumpire likes this.
  10. G

    G FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    1,676
    Likes Received:
    182
    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Only place I have ever had my stick (and helmet) checked was at a national level finals

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
     
  11. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,427
    Likes Received:
    2,593
    Unless you're prepared to check every single stick for circumference, depth & position of bow, weight and length (once the proposed limit to the latter is introduced to the rules), using a perfectly flat surface, with some way of recording that you've checked them and marking that they've passed - oh, and by "every stick" I mean all the spares and practice sticks in bags on the bench, not just those in the players' hands at the start of the game - I really wouldn't venture down this route, unless you want a whole heap of argument and confrontation before you even blow a whistle...

    The only exception I would make to this general rule would be if you can see that a stick is clearly dangerous to other players as a result of its condition.
     
    JoshRobbino likes this.
  12. Jersey Jerry

    Jersey Jerry FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    113
    Location:
    Jersey
    Its used for when an umpire topic gets too long and laborious. In such a case Diligent will print out the thread, roll it up and try to get it through the ring. If it doesn't fit, then Diligent can opt to 'stick' on the thread and close it down- hence 'stick ring.' Honest.


    Mod edit: Diligent does not actually do this. People would want to have all the other threads checked. Not just in the Umpire Corner; someone will want all the Goalies Zone checked as well. And as for the Word Association game...
     
  13. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,546
    Likes Received:
    444
    Yes I do, now I'm debating taking a tape measure and scales :)


    On a serious note, I've tended to find that players will push the boundaries at top level (e.g. that long stick for shootouts or home-made uber-bows) and it'll filter down to lower levels who have parents who can fork out for the new stick, but they won't be willing to stop using the new stick and buy another one (lack of sponsors willing to give multiple sticks out or lack of income) so they keep using sticks even after the bans - it then falls to umpires to adjudicate fair play or let players get away with cheating by assuming the player will demand all sticks be checked and wanting to avoid that scenario.

    The only time I have ever banned a home made stick, the player replaced it without question (and almost certainly used it the next week), nothing more was said and I knew they hadn't been able to gain an advantage at least for that game
     
  14. SPetitt

    SPetitt FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,379
    Likes Received:
    338
    Location:
    Gloucestershire, Buckinghamshire & Costa del Sol
    I had one similar experience to Gingerbread, with a similar outcome, so it is clearly not a serious issue if you have a ring or not ( as I think JerseyJerry's post implies!).
    However, without the ring in my hand, I'd have been on shaky ground, saying "That stick is illegal".
    In the games I umpired, there would never, in my opinion and experience, have been anyone 'insisting' that I check all the other sticks
    (and I certainly would not have complied!)
    But I can see that some of the 'barrack room lawyers' out there might try such a ploy, especially at the slightly 'higher levels'.
    Umpires have a responsibility to prevent obviously illegal/dangerous equipment from being used.
    (I recall, way back in my youth, a player coming on the ... grass ... field wearing running spikes :eek: ... seriously!)
     
  15. Craig Boyne

    Craig Boyne FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,196
    Likes Received:
    582
    Location:
    Canterbury, UK
    I could tell you now that 95% of people won't be able to check the bow properly. Red is right, you're opening a whole new can of worms on this. I totally agree that illegal bows shouldn't be used, but trying to police this is going to be a massive headache. At the end of the day they can just put a couple of layers of tape on before testing, and remove afterwards. Only at international level can this be policed as there are multiple officials involved to keep an eye on things.
     
  16. NicfromSweden

    NicfromSweden FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    9,662
    Likes Received:
    241
    Location:
    Göteborg Sweden
    And even at international level things is complicated during the European indoor nations championship in January the Germans removed their grips added tape etc only to change the stick back to how it was afterwards.
     
  17. SPetitt

    SPetitt FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,379
    Likes Received:
    338
    Location:
    Gloucestershire, Buckinghamshire & Costa del Sol
    We weren't originally discussing bow measurement, just stick width, much easier to check.
    I am (fairly) confident that, given the will to do so, it would not be beyond the intelligence of officialdom to come up with a practical system for marking 'approved' sticks in such a way as to make subsequent modifications visible.
    I guess it depends how much unfair advantage might be gained by such illegal mods ... probably not much, I'd think. Those with the skill of,say, TdN don't need to cheat, and those further down the food chain probably lack the skill to benefit significantly from a few extra mm of bow!
     
  18. RushMan

    RushMan FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,618
    Likes Received:
    128
    Location:
    Perth for 2017
    Moulded composite sticks fit through the ring unless someone seriously stuffs up the mould, so look for sticks with lots of tape
     
  19. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,427
    Likes Received:
    2,593
    True, but if you're going to check the 'width' and not the bow, there's precious little point in checking at all as you're only checking the stick for one potential 'illegality'.
     
  20. jaduong

    jaduong FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,400
    Likes Received:
    222
    as interesting as that ring is, Patrick121916 could you take a better picture of that carpet? it looks super 70s!


    on what Nic says..if the stick passes the bow test in its stock form, then adding fat grips on it which would probably fail the stick technically (which is why the Germans did it i imagine)..is there any guidance on that re the test procedure? it is a curious thing.
     
    Patrick121916 likes this.

Share This Page