What if...

Discussion in 'Game Management & Communication' started by Jonesy, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. Jonesy

    Jonesy FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    A player took a free hit, but it was lifted and hit another player on the opposing team

    BUT

    what if the opposing player was making an offense by being less than 5 yards away?

    who would be penalised?
     
  2. Trig

    Trig FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    152
    Location:
    Norfolk
    Did the player getting hit move away quickly?

    Did the player hitting the ball give the defender time to move away?
     
  3. Jonesy

    Jonesy FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    the player wasn't moving, but the umpire didn't notice he was so close
     
  4. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,566
    Likes Received:
    2,713
    Jonesy - you can't deliberately lift a ball from a hit, unless it's a shot on goal. Have a look at this discussion on the Forum for more on that. And we discussed the issues relating to a player being 5m away a free hit here.

    Happy reading!
     
  5. Jonesy

    Jonesy FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    agreed, but what if this took place no where near the D, and the player accidentally hit the ball high?
     
  6. Gilly

    Gilly FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2007
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    321
    Location:
    Peterborough
    Jonsey,

    For me, the question is one of degrees of culpability (guilt/intent) and degrees of seriousness of the offence.

    The player who wasn't 5m has potentially committed an offence as soon as the ball is played (and here, I am assuming it was not lifted at him deliberately)...

    But, there is a simultaneous offence by the player lifting a free hit (even accidentally)!

    So, which is the more culpable (guilty)! The player not retreating may have deliberately remained within 5m to break play down or may have been retreating as fast as humanly possible...

    The player taking the hit may have 'accidentally' lifted it or may have accidentally lifted it...

    Now the question of the seriousness of the offence...

    The player retreating may have committed a cynical breach of the rules to calculated benefit his team (worthy of a big personal penalty) or may have been complying with the rules as quickly as possible (worthy of commendation and a free hit).

    You must decide (in the heat of the moment) which is more probable.

    I suspect that in most cases I would penalise the lifted free hit (that's always a potential offence) ahead of the 5m offence unless there was an OBVIOUS intent to break play down by the defender (big personal penalty as well as the FHA) or an OBVIOUS intent to lift the free hit at the defender (BIG personal penalty as well as the FHD).

    Hope that helps!
     
  7. Handmedown

    Handmedown FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Perhaps another question to ask is whether the hit would have been dangerous should the player had been the full 5m from the hit?
     
  8. bigpez5

    bigpez5 FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2008
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    0
    well whatever decision the umpire would give one team will be disappointed. so they're stuck between a rock and a hard place but i think the first offence is the lift from the free hit so free hit to the defending team
     
  9. Trig

    Trig FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    152
    Location:
    Norfolk
    This is were common sense and good judgement of the game situation comes into play.

    The player not 5m hasn't moved away quick enough, they known what they are doing and it's wrong.

    The player taking the free hit, accidently lifts it, hmmm ok.

    A quick strong whistle, ok guys, lets just calm down, you, make sure you get 5m quicker, you be more careful with your free hits.

    Take it again. ;)
     
  10. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    33
    That gives you no right to play a raised hit into a player- or any hit for that matter.
     
  11. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    1
    first off....

    guidelines say that the umpire would be trying to get the player back 5 yards.

    if the player had NO chance then the opposing team are trying to manufacture a foul against the defense....

    the problem with WHAT IF's is that you can go through a multitude of WHAT IF's in the course of the one answer...

    Its all dependant on circumstance and being there to view the event.
     
  12. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,566
    Likes Received:
    2,713
    :yes: Like it. Good player management.

    If your umpiring sixth sense is working particularly well on the day you might even be able to get a quick whistle in before the hit is taken and set it all up properly with the defender 5m away, always provided that in doing so you don't disadvantage the team with the hit.
     
  13. Trig

    Trig FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    152
    Location:
    Norfolk
    Ta :clap:
     

Share This Page