Management & Communication Umpire Referrals

Discussion in 'Outdoor Umpiring Questions & General Chat' started by Peeb Rain, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. Peeb Rain

    Peeb Rain FHF Newbie

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    I have been transfixed on occasions by the detail shown up by video referrals, most notably at the Olympics, Champs League and WLSF. I was also lucky to be present at two of these and as an umpire I took great comfort from the amount of decisions over turned by the 3rd umpire. I was comforted because it proves that all umpires are fallible, by definition. I think that I get as much right as should be expected of me but I am only too aware that some of my decisions may have been proved to be wrong if we had been able to examine them by video. I always say I must blow what I see rather than what I suspect, although as we all know players body language often tells us if we got it right or not, and on these occasions I would reckon the third umpire may well have overruled me. Does anyone have the stats for how often players were successful? I recall that at 2012 in one game almost every referral was successful, and the umpiring was seemingly very good that game.
     
  2. careeman

    careeman FHF Super Star

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    I have no info on the stats side of things but there is nothing to stop yourself getting video'd.

    If you do try to look at trends or think about decisions you already struggle with or areas of the pitch were you get questioned or feel less confident.
    Focussing on individual decision won't help you improve it will just tell you if you were right or wrong. You need to know why in order to be more right in the future.
    Then look at your positioning and movement to see if you are giving yourself the best chance of making a good decision. Share the views with a senior colleague or coach for input and advice.

    Depending what level you umpire many higher level teams now video their games for tactical analysis so ask them for a copy. Some league regulations stipulate that teams videoing games have to make the resource available to opposition and umpires if asked to do so (doesn't always happen in reality even if you do ask but worth a try nonetheless.)
     
  3. Peeb Rain

    Peeb Rain FHF Newbie

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    Thanks Careerman. I do umpire at a high level and, yes, sometimes the coach will allow me access to his/her videos. However these are not referral style videos and do not show every angle and at slomo. More often than not any particularly queryable decision is made no clearer by the coaches video.

    My thread was not about me though, and more that almost everything can be over analysed after the event as we often see during MoD. We have to give what we see and at the moment. I am certainly not against video referral, and quite the opposite. I just hope that players realise the fallibility of the decision making process given that most of us don't have the benefit of instant replays.
     
  4. careeman

    careeman FHF Super Star

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    There will never be referral vids though unless you do World / top level events so any other video type is as good as it gets.
    By accessing and reviewing these objectively the fallibility of decisions can be reduced which I believe is what players at any level want.

    I have no knowledge but would expect that the umpires with the VR systems will analyse them post game and look at what they 'missed' and more importantly why. Possibly alongside other video showing their positioning etc
    I'd add that in my experience players (in games without VR) do not readily accept incorrect decisions but as there is no 'proof' either way who is actually 'right'. There is an element of interpretation of course which can be where VR is handy but humility and empathy are tools available to all umpires even if VR isn't.
     
  5. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

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    Referrals do have a whole can of worms associated with them such as the unwillingness of the video umpire to call "no foul" or "long corner" etc for incidental foot in the D and the way they won't override umpire interpretation of deliberate or not. I saw one in a women's game at the current world series (may have been India in the game vs South Africa) where a player stick blocked (defender moving stick in to tackle, about 4-5 inches from the ball, attacker moves stick over to block the tackle) and there was a PC after, I think for a different offence, and the defence referred it for the earlier block, video umpire watched one quick replay and refused to overrule the PC - I wonder if the PC had been given for that tackle whether they would or not..
     
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  6. Porter

    Porter FHF Top Player

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    @Peeb Rain - VU stats from the 2016 Rio Olympic Games were that approx. 60% of the Mens' Team Referrals were upheld, and approx. 53% of the Womens' Team Referrals were upheld.
     
  7. Peeb Rain

    Peeb Rain FHF Newbie

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    Wow! That's suggests that in the instances where a query was raised the umpires were getting 50% plus wrong. By logical association that means that I must be getting even more wrong. And I thought I got much if not most right!
     
    #7 Peeb Rain, Jul 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  8. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

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    It's less getting stuff wrong, more that the teams spot tiny things like the ball brushing the foot and call for a PC. A better analysis would be on what grounds did they refer e.g. did the umpire miss something or were they wrong - I bet the majority are the former
     
  9. Paul Watts

    Paul Watts FHF All Time Great

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    It's not a percentage of incorrect decisions, it's a percentage of those decisions that were considered for review. There were hundreds of decisions weren't reviewed.
     
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  10. careeman

    careeman FHF Super Star

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    Let not get carried away buly the sudden inaccuracy of the worlds beat umpires.

    As a simple hypothetical example.

    100 decisions made. 5 referred. Equals 5% of ALL decisions referred.

    Of those 5 let's use your 50% ratio and say the half referral was a no advice possible.

    So thats 2 decisions overturned often on a minor technicality.

    How do they sleep at night. ?!?!;):D
     
  11. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

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    Though do remember video referrals are limited to certain decisions / areas and teams obviously won't refer middle of the pitch decisions. Further, do remember that referrals are for key decisions - you could make 9 decisions leading up to a shot and get a few wrong/right but a crucial goal/no goal one wrong so the referral would be 1/10 "wrong" but the actual % could be 40/50 or 10% or 100%
     
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