The London League.....what a waste!

Discussion in 'Europe' started by MKochar, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. MKochar

    MKochar FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    491
    Location:
    Isleworth
    Yes, thats right.

    The London Hockey League is arguably the strongest league in the UK, with talent and passion unlike anywhere else in the country.

    YET this talent is wasted in a meaningless structure.
    Imagine the best players in Holland playing in a closed league, where promotion was denied/unobtainable.
    Imagine there is a Hamburg city league with players not 'adding' to the overall picture.

    Open up the league, offer promotion.
     
    Ravennghorde likes this.
  2. nemo

    nemo FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    1,971
    Likes Received:
    587
    Location:
    Coventry
    Had a similar debate a while ago when I argued against a playoff game for the bottom team in top league against top team from league below and was met by explanations such as , need the best teams in league etc. if a team deserve to be promoted or regulated so be it , don't hide behind phrases such as good of the game etc. if you want a super league full of super clubs fine call it such and let the rest of us get on with our lowly hockey leagues. But the big teams will always have the biggest influence and as such will always protect their own interests as shown by the upheld appeal for eligible players for a certain club by all accounts.
     
  3. Jacob0507

    Jacob0507 FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    14
    Promotion to where? South leagues?
    Probably be a drop in standard rather than promotion in reality.
     
  4. MKochar

    MKochar FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    491
    Location:
    Isleworth
    straight to Nat Leg
     
  5. Jacob0507

    Jacob0507 FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    14
    Second teams to National League?
    Would be good for big national prem clubs (if they could afford to support to NL teams) I suppose but would ruin smaller clubs around them. If you factor in 2nd teams from other regions that would also be eligible for promotion to NL then the diversity of clubs in the NL structure could fall significantly in a few years.
     
  6. GK13

    GK13 FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    470
    Having never played in the London League, I have to ask: How have you determined that the hockey there is played with a "passion unlike anywhere else in the country"?

    Is there a trick that the rest of the country is missing out on?
     
    Penningtorr likes this.
  7. Willowsacorns

    Willowsacorns FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    228
    I would agree with you Mani if the London League Prem was full of 1st teams. Its not and works as it is in that it provides incredible competition for 2nd teams, 3rd teams etc etc (National League and South League teams). The strength of it is shown by the fact it includes clubs such as Canterbury, EG etc but interestingly no Holcombe (??!!)

    I think this structure preferable to say the North or South ladies where the strongest teams in the league are second teams so its the third or fourth team in that league that are promoted.

    Agree Nemo re promotion in the Nat Lge - win your league and you should go up but with the Conference setup it just does not work 3 up 3 down is excessive. I do however also understand the argument re strength of that league but not sure EH are concerned with that now.

    Personally prefer a North and a South conference with the line being drawn somewhere South of Birmingham. 2 up 2 down and you know where you stand.
     
    Jacob0507 and GK13 like this.
  8. MKochar

    MKochar FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    491
    Location:
    Isleworth
    It's a great league, but it has a concentration of 'talent' not going anywhere.
    It is a pointless league, it's not even a 'London' league. It's a 2nd XI comp on a grand scale, surely those players could be useful elsewhere in spreading talent across a number of clubs.

    6 leagues feeding into 3 conferences. Easy math.
     
  9. Jacob0507

    Jacob0507 FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    14
    Surely that's the point of it? So strong second teams have adequate competition without flooding the regional premier leagues?
    As to spreading talent across clubs surely allowing big clubs to have two NL teams would only serve to concentrate talent in those clubs even more?
     
  10. MKochar

    MKochar FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    491
    Location:
    Isleworth
    Yes - which is why I don't think 2nd teams should be promoted.
    I also think the South League should swallow the London League......as its not really a London League anymore, its a glorified/glass-ceiling of a South League. Teams/Clubs aren't even stuck in its structure I.e. Richmond 1s play Nat League having won the South Prem, their 2s play London league......different structure.
     
  11. Willowsacorns

    Willowsacorns FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    228
    Mani is right and I think it is down to depth of competition, especially in the London League Prem/Div 1.
    6 into 3 is easy maths, I was referring to 3 NL conferences into 1 prem which is not.

    Far from pointless IMHO as it provides tremendous competition for players registered for NL and therefore effectively barred from playing elsewhere.
     
  12. Jacob0507

    Jacob0507 FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    14
    Can you imagine what south prem would look like if London and south merged though! you could realistically finish 5th or 6th and be in line for national league promotion...
     
  13. murph

    murph FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,214
    Likes Received:
    892
    Location:
    Derby
    Clearly never witnessed a game with 9 men after a full english breakfast in the November snow at Cockermouth high school.:D
     
  14. ironman

    ironman FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    92
    I don't really understand the point, as if the players/clubs weren't happy with it they would withdraw from the league and play for different teams or in different leagues? I assume the clubs that joined the league did so because it offered their 2nd XI a higher level of hockey than they could get when the league structure was closed, and still does so even now that it's open.
     
  15. GK13

    GK13 FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    470
    I'm not disputing that there is a concentration of talent in London; what I'm not sure about is whether that means that the London scene is necessarily more passionate about the sport than anywhere else in the country. Personally, I take my hat off to anyone who plays the sport in Cumbria, who has the commitment to endure away trips to Cheshire and North Wales on a regular basis.

    (And if there's anyone on this forum who plays for the Keswick team that made the trip to Wrexham this season... well done indeed!)
     
    Penningtorr likes this.
  16. BossFHockey

    BossFHockey FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,278
    Likes Received:
    682
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Stick/s:
    This would be quite a list for all of them....
    one of my friends does. Keswick are such a lovely bunch of lads as well had 3 friends with them over several years. they have travelled to us twice and we have gone to them once. My friend has told me that understand the nice gesture of giving lifts in Yorkshire as in cumbria everything is 2 hours away from everything else. lol
     
    DP_13 and GK13 like this.
  17. Stuart Burnside

    Stuart Burnside FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    875
    There are a couple of big rule differences between the Lon League & other leagues. It's the only league I am aware of that doesn't have a strict requirement to pick teams in order of strength. This allows "playing with your mates" / "in a clique" depending on your view of life. Some people want that (not me personally). As a result, I'd be minded to say that's a reason it isn't really a formal enough league to offer a NL promotion route. The other is the flex about NL players playing in it mentioned above but that doesn't matter so much as a club with those cant get promoted anyway as they already have a NL first team.

    I also agree it's not really a Lon league - we're a Lon club & the oppos we would get if we joined it would in many cases be a longer away commute than we see in East.

    I think it maybe does serve a useful purpose though. The Bisham magnet artificially strengthens Southern clubs, particularly NL ones & they want to run strong second strings as part of a wider 1s squad, eg for when the international players disappear. It would be quite tiresome of super club 2nd teams cluttered up the regional prems & made it impossible for an upcomer's 1st team to get to NL. Although maybe that could be addressed by having a parallel "2nd team Prem".
     
  18. Ravennghorde

    Ravennghorde FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2,801
    Likes Received:
    385
    Location:
    Southern England
    @Stuart Burnside is this just the guys or does it apply to the ladies as well? I note Surbiton L2s sit top of South 1 with no where to go so for them effectively a closed league.
     
  19. Stuart Burnside

    Stuart Burnside FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    875
    Lon league is men only I think


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. Stuart Burnside

    Stuart Burnside FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    875
    [​IMG] putting that lot into regional would probably need a parallel division


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

Share This Page