Talking to players - sending them off

Discussion in 'Game Management & Communication' started by lordy, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. lordy

    lordy FHF Regular Player

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    Hi,

    As umpires can you tell me how you'd send someone off (yellow card) - i realise that these things differ quite often, but is there a standard approach you'd take.

    I was sent off on Saturday, for a foul/push, which was defintely a foul but I'm not sure about the yellow card bit ;) Straight from the foul, the umpire produced the card, waved it in the air and said "Off you go!" with a bit of an edge to his voice, as I approached I said "there's no need to talk to players in that way", the reply I got was "get off, bye bye" and a waving me away from the pitch. I was so angry with how I'd been spoken to, and so didnt approach the umpire after the game to explain as I didnt feel it was going to improve or resolve anything for me or him.

    I dont think I can look at this umpire in the same way if he officiates on one of our games again, any advice on how to deal with him?
    CHeers

    PS This is only my 2nd yellow card in 20 years, so i don't make a habit of bad fouls, or arguing with umpires
     
  2. Twister

    Twister FHF Regular Player

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    I don't tend to say anything, or let the player get close enough to me to start any discussion.

    I generally hold the card up, point at the bench and then ignore the player - only because you can only lose if a conversation develops.

    If I do say anything it's likely to be just "Off!" or "Sorry".

    I'll talk more if there are two yellows at the same time - or if I'm going back to an earlier offence - to ensure that both teams understand what I'm doing and why.

    Overall though, once you've been shown a yellow, there's little point in speaking to the umpire. All you might achieve is a longer suspension for yourself!
     
  3. zippytime

    zippytime FHF Legend

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    I have to agree with Twister, thats how I have been doing it for a while now since I got some advice.
     
  4. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    I'd've thought that talking to the umpire in the bar after the game about the reasons behind the card is a more sensible idea than trying to do it on the pitch. Then it's more of a "what did I do wrong and how can I fix it for next time" discussion rather than a rant!

    Chances are, if you've been yellow carded - you know what it's for, even if you don't agree with it!
     
  5. CardHappy

    CardHappy FHF Legend

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    Must have been some good advice that Zippy!! :yes:
     
  6. zippytime

    zippytime FHF Legend

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    I see you have managed to drag yourself of the golf course to reply.

    Are you trying to claim to be the advice giver :p
     
  7. lordy

    lordy FHF Regular Player

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    I know what it was for but didnt think he got the colour of the card right
     
  8. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    But he's hardly going to change his mind to a lesser card if you start arguing is he!?

    As for my "process", it's something like this:

    • stop the clock
    • show card
    • say something appropriate, if necessary, without inviting 'feedback' from the player (eg "sorry" or "you left me no choice", but certainly not "bye bye": that's just arrogant and as asking for trouble!)
    • note the player's no.
    • ensure he is off the pitch and sitting in the right place
    • re-start the game/clock
     
  9. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    I think the 'discussion' in the bar would go something like this:
    "Although you, as the umpire, can pretty much say what you like, I'd just like to say that saying "Bye, Bye!" is not likely to encourage players to return to the field in a positive mood...Bye, Bye!"...and walk away.
    Then he can see how it feels!

    And I'd take a witness with me, just in case he decided to award a MMO :(
     
  10. lordy

    lordy FHF Regular Player

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    whats a mmo?
     
  11. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    I'm with justin's advice until the (likely tongue-in-cheek?) part about reciprocating the "bye bye".

    In a calm manner, simply let the umpire know how you felt in response to his manner of speaking and choice of words with you. If you maintain the line that this is your reaction rather than "you did this, you did that" you may be able to show the umpire that his purposes weren't well-served and he'll want to do better next time.

    I know it doesn't help you and it's not an excuse for his behaviour, but some umpires aren't very experienced at sending players off and some people aren't very skilled at dealing with what could be a very confrontational situation and come off awkward or rude. Your feedback might be very valuable to this umpire and I hope you have a chance to present it positively in the future.
     
  12. zippytime

    zippytime FHF Legend

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    Re: Talking to players - sending them offjavascript:void(0);

    A Matchday Misconduct Offence




    And this below is from the Red Card and Matchday Misconduct Offence Regulations found on the england hockey website Here.

    4.4 An MMO is committed when at any time during the day of a match, but excluding the time from the start to the end
    of the match, a person due to participate or who has participated in the match misconducts himself in such a way
    that one of the match umpires decides (a) would have warranted the issue of a Red Card had such misconduct
    occurred during the match, and (b) is to be reported as an MMO, and the umpire so informs the offender on the
    day of the match.
    4.4.1 As soon as reasonably practicable after the umpire has decided to report an MMO the umpire shall
    inform the offender that the offender’s misconduct is to be reported as an MMO. In so far as is
    reasonably possible, the umpire shall also inform a representative of the affiliated body for which the
    offender is to participate or has participated on the day of the relevant match that the offender’s
    misconduct is to be reported as an MMO.
    4.4.2 A non-registered umpire is not entitled to report an MMO but, in the event of an unregistered umpire
    being of the opinion that there has been misconduct that ought to be reported as an MMO, the umpire
    may, subject to the Disrepute Offence Regulations, make a Disrepute Complaint in respect of such
    misconduct.
     
  13. CardHappy

    CardHappy FHF Legend

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    Howabout a favourite (or should that be favorite) saying from our cousins over the pond....

    "Your out of here!".. :p :rolleyes:
     
  14. UmpireHockey.com

    UmpireHockey.com FHF All Time Great

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    I typically feel compelled, because it seems like so many people around here know the rules or need to be shown the why, that I...

    01. Stop the clock
    02. Call the player over
    3a. "Show" don't do THAT again in front of my face (cross my arms back and forth once like a third-party obstruction but palms toward player and shake my head "no" and show what the violation was for (typically pushing or a lumberjack hack from behind, whatever it was)
    3b. Say to the player something that matches the actions ("You may NOT _____. You'll have to go off now.")
    04. Show the card overhead, which is already in my hand for all to see during 2,3a and 3b.

    In NCAA games we have to indicate, then and there, how long the suspension is for.

    I did, a few years ago tried for a game or two the "take out card and just wave player off" action but [a] found it helpful to show the crowd exactly what was at issue and we were coached this year specifically NOT to do it the "wave the player off" way---but to card professionally, to go out of your way to demonstrate YOUR professionalism during a carding.

    Cheers...Cris
     
  15. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    the handling of it can be different from player to player.

    NEVER make yourself the center of the problem....the player must wear the consequences.

    I have used....

    "that was a really bad tackle...take some time to calm down and Ill see you in a bit..." YC.
    "If your going to do something like that...the least you could do is make it harder for me to make a choice" YC
    " laughing...you know that really was a good effort.....but unfortunatly you did ( insert badness here) andits not good for hockey or the other players.." YC




    I have used "get off" but I found that annoys the players some what...so I dont use that anymore.

    I had a player hold his stick in the air above a player and bring it down on the players head. It wasn't deliberate and it looked like he wasnt aware the player was that close.

    I called him over and said..."according to the rules...we are not allowed to have our sticks over the head of players....its so this sort of thing doesnt happen. Now take a minute ...calm down...and Ill call you back on the field..."YC. he said sorry went to behind the goal and I was satisfied he was sorry enough and he got 5 and the minimum of points lose for his team.
    If he had of given me lip...10 and maximum points loss for the team.

    its also important how you stand with a player...the calling over...the production of a card.

    if you can get those three things right you dont get people upset like what happended to you.
     
  16. aussieump

    aussieump FHF All Time Great
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    It is about respect, respect for the game the player and you as an official.

    Cris, I would not make a player walk 40 - 50 metres towards me just so I could have a chat and then issue the card, eg GC or a YC to send them off, it invites the player to have an opportunity to have a say, when really they do not have one. The only instance would be if I wanted to use the time to calm the game down.

    Issue the card, ensure your co-ump and TO-Bench can see the card clearly. All this can be done with respect and yet ensure you are displaying an assertive manner without being demonstrative.


    Just my thoughts
     
  17. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    I concur aussiump.

    if you treat them with dignity...patience...and respect...chances are they will respond better.

    I used to say "NO"...whenever a player would try and tell me something....I now say.."ok Ill keep an eye out for it."

    I would still look out for it...but one is a lesser of the two rebuttals.

    another thing to try as a player...is to calm down before getting to the umpire....if you can do that and not have fire in the eyes...you might get away with less.

    dont plead innocent...say "gee that must have looked bad, you got me over here huh?" even..."was it the stick foul....im sorry about that...missed that ball by a mile.." do your best to be friendly and approachable as a player and umpire.
     
  18. Neo

    Neo Technical Moderator

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    Exactly - I still remember the firs time I gave a yellow - and it wasn't the best of interactions, but only because of the inexperience. As umpires improve and understand the role of player management within their skill set & accreditation (and gather the experience) the management of awarding personal penalties should improve. And the skill level of the game being officiated and the spirit with which it is being played should mean the umpire uses the most appropriate discourse to manage the situation on hand.
     
  19. controller

    controller FHF Legend

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    I learnt my lesson very quickly in how to give a card about 20 years ago.

    I was told to be polite, tell them what for and if possible smile. Now I am not known for smiling especially grin, so I am standing there, my tongue in-between my teeth and player had just got a yellow card, and he thought I was sticking my tongue out at him..........

    Well, then I knew what mobility met in real terms when he started to chase me around the pitch, :baffled:


    Now I follow Red's line, it seems to work............. lol
     
  20. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    A yellow card seldom needs much explanation. A green card is often because the player doesn't seem to know about the Rule - so a brief "That's the second/third time you... Not again!" makes it clear.

    Yesterday's University game produced a classic. It's the middle of the second half and although it's 0-4, the home team are working ever harder to get something back. Two players are competing (fairly) for the ball when another comes steaming through the middle of them. So I blow the free hit and then stop time for a green. Number 9 is now moving away from the scene-of-crime and I can't get his attention. The home captain is nearby: "What's his name?" "Chopper" "Hey Chopper!". Chopper at last turns to see the green card, with the typical "What for?" face. But there is nothing to say. By now everyone is sniggering, and then Chopper has a sheepish smile, and we are all friends. No more trouble for the rest of the game, but they never did get that goal - final score 0-6.
     

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