Rules Changes Tackle from behind

Discussion in 'Outdoor Umpiring Questions & General Chat' started by GPrice85, Sep 27, 2017.

  1. GPrice85

    GPrice85 FHF Newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Kent, UK
    Question for the learned gentlemen of the umpires forum.

    Last night at training, I made a tackle that I thought myself was illegal, but our captain and a few others thought wasn't, as the rules had changed, so I thought I'd put up the scenario here to see what your thoughts are.

    Scenario was this,

    Me defending around the top of the 16 (ish), centre forward was facing away from goal, and had the ball passed to him on the 25.

    His legs were ajar, and didn't move the ball on, meaning he was there, wide stanced, but with the ball on the end of his stick, facing the direction of his own goal. I then rush up to mark, and stop behind him to prevent him moving forward.

    As he stands pretty still, I decide to put my stick through his legs, on to the ball, and hook it off to the side, making him lose possession. Note, I didn't make contact with him or his stick at all, it was (for me) a remarkably clean take.

    Now, I've always been taught that tackling from behind/through the legs, was illegal, however a few were of a different opinion, and castigated the attacker for holding on to the ball too long rather than distributing.

    Can anyone offer any thoughts on the above, based in the laws of the game?

    Many thanks
     
  2. Trig

    Trig FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    Messages:
    619
    Likes Received:
    153
    Location:
    Norfolk
    Nothing wrong with what you did, play on.
     
    masonsm215, Ravennghorde and GPrice85 like this.
  3. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,184
    Likes Received:
    844
    Agreed,
    I guess the "rule of thumb" is based on the fact that it is generally unlikely that such an attempt won't break a rule somewhere, but where you are skillful/lucky enough to do such without causing danger or using your stick to obstruct etc. then I for one cannot see a reason not to play on.

    There are many arbitrary rules of thumb which are generally borne of folklore or old rules which don't exist anymore. The list of these is long and may people hold them dear. I think most of us do in one way or another.
     
  4. GPrice85

    GPrice85 FHF Newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Kent, UK
    Cheers guys - with regards to the rule of thumb, I was definitely guilty of that yesterday myself
     
  5. careeman

    careeman FHF Super Star

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    501
    A quick check of the rules shows that as long as you genuinely breached none of the following then its ok to play on.
    They all relate to largely the same thing that any tackle must not make contact or impede the player initially in control of the ball.
    All rules shown are from Section 9 Conduct of Play : Players

    9.3 Players must not touch, handle or interfere with other
    players or their sticks or clothing.

    9.12 Players must not obstruct an opponent who is attempting
    to play the ball.

    Players obstruct if they : (Only showing relevant clause, there are others)
    physically interfere with the stick or body of an opponent

    9.13 Players must not tackle unless in a position to play the ball
    without body contact.
     
    Krebsy, Ravennghorde and GPrice85 like this.
  6. johnreiss

    johnreiss FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    Messages:
    716
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    teesside
    This is one of those urban myths. There is no rule that says tyou cannot tackle from behind. If you play the ball without any stick or body contact not only is it legal it's great skill. MY only other comment is get in wrong by making my sort of illegal contact wi8tgh the player or his stick and you looking at a PC against you and at least a 2 minute rest.. Get in wrong big stlyle your looking at a pc and a 10 min rest.
     
  7. CH.ump

    CH.ump FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    57

    Why not PS?
     
  8. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,801
    Likes Received:
    556
    I'm guessing he's talking about OP scenario which was outside the D
     
  9. CH.ump

    CH.ump FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    57
    That would do it, trouble with reading threads - lose them sometimes;)
     
    Pippinn likes this.
  10. asc1991

    asc1991 FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    15
    Yep, fine. However...

    Whilst this exact instance was evidently very safe, tackles from behind can be called out as being 'dangerous'. That itself is subjective and depends on your perception and skill levels. An example of dangerous might be if an attacker has backswinged and your right behind them and/or is about to pull the trigger. I regularly make jab-tackles from 4-5 o'clock when players are about to shoot, meaning they can no longer make the shot - I have never been called up on it.

    However, there is a particular umpire we sometimes get who considers all tackles from behind to be dangerous. Last time we had him I made two very clean jab-tackles (all ball, no stick or player) from behind, my stick coming in from 4-5 o'clock, outside the players right leg, sort of under his arm. Both times it got blown, the second time being told I'd get a card if I did it again.
     
  11. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,678
    Likes Received:
    2,782
    Just as not all players are of the same standard and some make more mistakes than others, the same is true of umpires. All I can suggest here is that you should sit down with the umpire next time you have chance and have a discussion with him about your differing perceptions of danger. I'm sure that would be mutually beneficial.
     
    Pippinn likes this.
  12. Rich_C

    Rich_C FHF Star Player

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2008
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    30
    Just don't try and do it while your umpire is on the middle of the pitch shaking hands with everyone. Wait until everyone has had a chance to finish the game, compose themselves and ready to discuss constructively. Most umpires who want improve welcome constructive feedback but no one wants to be told how many mistakes they made immediately after the game.
     
  13. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,678
    Likes Received:
    2,782
    Absolutely. Apart from anything else, you'd look really weird trying to persuade the umpire to sit down in the middle of the pitch for a chat... ;)
     
    Pippinn and adam00 like this.
  14. Rallybug

    Rallybug FHF Starter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Utah
    Especially if the sprinklers are about to come on...
     
  15. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    4,226
    Likes Received:
    956
    Location:
    Hampshire (South Coast of England)
    We've had some off-topics, but this is turning bizarre. o_O

    It's the 'Tackle from behind' thread, right?
     
    Pippinn likes this.
  16. Pippinn

    Pippinn FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2017
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    15
    No I thought it was the when not to have a chat with the umpire thread, like the nice player yesterday who tried to correct me for threatening her team with a card if they continued putting the ball off the back deliberately, right before a PC for said offence, I offered to review it with her after but she should probably concentrate on the PC.

    NB. Tackles from behind are legal and a skill I'm trying to get better at, trick is (as previously discussed) to not make body contact or obstruct the player in some way.

    Sent from my VFD 710 using Tapatalk
     
  17. careeman

    careeman FHF Super Star

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    501
    You threatened to give a card for a team choosing to repeatedly give away PCs by deliberately playing the ball over the back line. Am I reading that correctly?

    I'm with the player. You can't card for that.
    As has been discussed in other threads before the restart for such an action is a PC, no matter how many times a team decides to do it.

    Stretching the point slightly, would you also card a team if they repeatedly played the ball off the side-line?
     
    Nij and Ravennghorde like this.
  18. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    4,226
    Likes Received:
    956
    Location:
    Hampshire (South Coast of England)
    As @careeman was writing, so was I:
    IMO the nice player had a point.

    It is poor practice to 'threaten' with a card, and worse still to threaten 'a team' with a card. If the offence needs a card, then show the card. If it just needs a warning, then give a loud and clear Warning as per 14.1. You can't card the team, because they would all have to leave the field for 2 minutes, and there might be a lot of goals. For team misbehaviour it is a card to the captain: the rules specify some circumstances for carding the captain, but otherwise the umpire needs to be very clear how the captain failed in their responsibility for team behaviour.

    As for the repeated putting the ball off the back line: that is simply a playing incident with a simple penalty. It is not 'behaviour'. If they do it repeatedly then the penalty also is repeated. No card.

    "Just concentrate on the PC" is good advice.
     
    #18 Diligent, Oct 8, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    Pippinn likes this.
  19. Pippinn

    Pippinn FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2017
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    15
    It's good to know, they didn't approach me after the game for a chat, hence I raised it on here.

    Sent from my VFD 710 using Tapatalk
     
  20. careeman

    careeman FHF Super Star

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2013
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    501
    Perhaps they were scared you'd threaten them with an MMO ;):D
     

Share This Page