Reverse Flick for Penalty Stroke

Discussion in 'PS and Goalkeeping' started by Ballingdon, Nov 8, 2008.

  1. Ballingdon

    Ballingdon FHF Top Player

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    Interesting situation in a match today. After a penalty stroke was awarded in my colleague's circle, the attacker asked my colleague if it was legal to use a reverse flick. My colleague said no, the attacker used the traditional method and miscued the ball straight towards the goalkeeper.

    Various questions arise :-
    1) Anyone seen a reverse flick used for a PS?

    2) I can't see anything in the Rules that says that a reverse flick woulld be illegal. Have I missed something?

    3) Should I have intervened or corrected my partner's response to the taker's question?

    That said, after the match I tried to see how a PS taker could take the sroke (legally starting behind the ball ). Seemed difficult to generate enough power
     
  2. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    One of my mates at uni could do a reverse flick

    She never did it in a match, but she could get an awful lot of power behind it, and as a keeper it completely flummoxes you.
     
  3. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    I assume you mean a reverse scoop...a sort of 'shoveling' action?

    I have seen that used, to good effect, into the top left corner :)

    As long as the requirements of starting behind the ball and not dragging are met, I don't see any illegality in it.
     
  4. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    yes very hard to start behind the ball and do it successfully.
     
  5. NicfromSweden

    NicfromSweden FHF All Time Great
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    i have seen it used by a player who always plays with the stick "on the wrong side" i cant see why it wouldnt be legal
     
  6. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    Such players should be banned for life. They're a **** er to umpire.
    :angry:
    ;)
     
  7. UmpireHockey.com

    UmpireHockey.com FHF All Time Great

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    The action is fine. Young teenage girls do it all the time, I guess, because they aren't powerful enough to do a "normal" action --- so they try the reverse stick action and find some success.

    If I were the partner I would have had a chat to correct the misdirection BUT why would the player ask? And, if he was told, "No," where was the guy's captain?

    Cheers...Cris
     
  8. quibble

    quibble FHF Starter

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    1) Yep - seen it (against me as a GK), used it (as a taker) and tried umpiring it!!!

    2) There is nothing in the rules to prevent it's usage

    3) Mmmmm - always difficult to argue about in a live match. Would suggest that's a post-match, beer based discussion!!!

    As for the power, I can generate as much on the reverse as I can on the open side (maybe that says something about my open side technique!!!) - however, I use it occasionally as it confuses the heck out of the GK and I can get the ball airborne really easily!!
     
  9. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    the only problem in a reverse stick stroke is....

    the positioning...most of the time you need to be in front of the ball to be able to play it. this goes against a rule.

    but there is no reason to not be able to use the reverse stick flick...if it doesnt clash with a rule.
     
  10. sase-31-19

    sase-31-19 FHF Regular Player

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    Nothing in the rules says you cant...
    If I were to ever take a PS i probably would... power is about the same for me, maybe a little weaker, but I mess them up less often :p
     
  11. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    It's harder to disguise direction and you have to start with both feet behind the ball, which limits power.
    Unless you've practised it LOTS, I'd say it was a low-percentage option.
     
  12. NicfromSweden

    NicfromSweden FHF All Time Great
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    i dont see why you would have to be infront of the ball if you change your grip of the stick like you would hold the stick like a left stick
     
  13. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    nic,

    when you play a ball with the toe of a stick you have less control and power that if you play with the heel.

    also the players motion uses upper arm strength only.

    being that the mechanics of a fair push and hit uses the hips more than shoulders it is better to be low.

    being low and flicking on the reverse stick is hard and not a high percentage shot.

    (this research was done as part of my human movement course...or PE to people in other countries)

    if you want to try it...
     
  14. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    foozbear, Nic knows that. What he's saying is that he doesn't understand why, if you choose to turn around and do this little reverse scoop, you would be prone to placing your feet in front of the ball, against the PS rules.

    Nic, I agree. When I was a wee lass and this was the trendy thing to do in high school, I was easily able to stand behind the ball.
     
  15. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    didnt a dutch guy do this internationaly and then the fih frowned on it.

    if you had to have both feet behind the ball on a left handed flick....your power is not in the right spot. youve already extended yourself and not going to get a good flick off.

    but if you want to do it...im not going to disagree anymore.
     
  16. nerd_is_the_word

    nerd_is_the_word FHF All Time Great

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    Yeah i have seen a guy in a game do these, and tried a few when mucking around, you can get some good power on them but they are hard to control.

    two things on the feet thing.

    1) if you change your grip slightly it is possible to get decent power behind the ball, although not as much as when you have the ball between your feet.

    2) the new rules say that you have to start behind the ball and you can take as many steps as you want, that basically means that once the umpire blows the whistle you can move your feet into the correct spot then flick the ball. you dont have to flick the ball with both feet behind it.
     
  17. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    yes but it must not have drag motion.

    this was the issue when the dutch guy did it.
     
  18. dodgeyumpires

    dodgeyumpires FHF Regular Player

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    I agree with NITW... taking a few steps forward then flicking the ball is still legal. There wouldnt neccessarily be a dragging action, any more so than a player flicking it with his feet in front of the ball on his normal side.

    Alternatively, swap hands around. Left hand becomes the lower hand and the right hand at the top.
    Practice it enough and im sure it would feel ...almost... as natural as a 'normal' flick
     
  19. Smithyt68i

    Smithyt68i FHF Newbie

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    How can this be legal? you can not wait for the blow from the ump and the stand in front of the ball, i'm sure you must play the ball before you can stand infront of the ball ?

    happy to be corrected on this but thats how i see it
     
  20. Hacker

    Hacker FHF Legend

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    No you have to be behind and in playing distance before the whistle is blown. You can then move as much as you like after only subject to the umpire deciding you haven't taken the flick "without delay".
     

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