Question on Grade 3 paper

Discussion in 'Development, Skills & Advice' started by hockey-legs, Nov 4, 2008.

  1. hockey-legs

    hockey-legs FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    0
    I searched the forum for something similar but couldnt find anything

    This queston was on my recent level three exam

    "the ball is struck inside the circle by the attacking team, but bounes off the umpires foot before crossing over the goal line.What is your decision"

    I wasnt sure what to put, is it a goal or not?It does say that play should continue if the ball hits off the umpires foot, but does that apply within the circle?
     
  2. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,585
    Likes Received:
    2,718
    Yep - that's a goal. It's a tough call but you really don't have a choice, other than to think about your positioning next time around if it ever actually happens to you!
     
  3. keely

    keely FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,403
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    Calgary, Canada
    So in checking the Rules of Hockey, did you see anything that would lead you to think that 11.8 wouldn't apply in this case? :)

    redumpire is completely right.
     
  4. aussieump

    aussieump FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,029
    Likes Received:
    104
    Location:
    Australia
    As Red and Keely say a Goal

    However I would ask if you are completing your level 3 papers this situation would have or should have been on the level 1 papers.

    I say this as a new umpire should have had this information when they started umpiring as the rules for this have not changed. So a L3 umpire would have come across this before.

    AU
     
  5. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    1
    its called a goal....

    be ready for hard looks...muttering under their breath....and no love for this if it ever happens.
     
  6. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    1
    aussie ump that depends...I know that the same paper is used for regional AND canadian qualifications...except the pass mark is higher. This was on the regional test I recently seen.

    The US have three levels and calls it levels. MAybe OP is from US and a similar thing applies.

    the funny thing about the test is its from 1999 and there is two questions in there that have changed rules.
     
  7. aussieump

    aussieump FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,029
    Likes Received:
    104
    Location:
    Australia
    Foozbear

    I was more thinking along the lines that someone that was trying to attain a L3 would have known the answer immediately, as it would/should have been covered far earlier than a L3 paper.

    From training programs that I have run over previuos years this has been covered for our first two level umpires. Community and Beginner, I say first two because someone may apply for RCC and miss the first level.

    In Aus we have five levels and we would not be expecting this to be needed to be covered at our Development Level defeinitely not at Advanced Level or National Level. As the requirement is rules knowledge and then practical assessments as well as attendance at Professional Development Days conducted by Hockey Australia.
     
  8. hockey-legs

    hockey-legs FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    0
    So in checking the Rules of Hockey, did you see anything that would lead you to think that 11.8 wouldn't apply in this case? :)

    redumpire is completely right.
    [/quote]

    I did actually put down that it would be a goal, I just thought it was an odd question because I have never seen this happen - not inside the circle anyway.
     
  9. keely

    keely FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,403
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    Calgary, Canada
    I certainly have - a colleague of mine deflected a shot going wide into the net for the winning goal at the Canada Summer Games.

    Not fun.
     
  10. Su*x

    Su*x FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    0
    oooh i would not like to have been in that situation!
     
  11. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Messages:
    917
    Likes Received:
    1
    and to be fair...community and beginner are what level of hockey?

    I umpired at premier and divisions one in the SHA assocciation and never saw a test until I did my level one coaching....where it was.

    I understand that it appears on test somewhere...its at what level in Nth Ireland it gets given for testing.

    so that being said...if level three is equivalent to someone half good with a whistle in Ireland...maybe its the equivalantcy of community in AUS.

    and on another note in relation to this...I CANT remember where I learnt its best to be nowhere near the ball if it comes at you. I knew I am a piece of field floatsam and jetsam...like a shinpad if it falls out unintentionally. if it hits me its play on.

    you know recently I was privilage of watching a hopeful canadian being in a discussion group to get his national badge.....the question asked was....
    "if the ball looped up off a defenders stick and came down IN your shirt...what do you do?"

    I knew the answer and it was funny watching the hopeful stumble...he knew the rule...but got confused by whatifs..in the end he blurted out whatever he was thinking and it was pretty close...

    this is actually fun....Ill ask the gallery....

    "if the ball looped up off a defenders stick and came down IN your shirt...what do you do?"
     
  12. nerd_is_the_word

    nerd_is_the_word FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    90
    Location:
    Queensland, AUS
    see this is what i hate about the new badging system. beginner is so demeaning when some of these umpires would be looking to go to junior national tournaments.

    back on the your question i think you would have to give a bully wouldnt you? same as if the ball got lodged in some random object that had fallen on the field (or dog that had run on the field). for a second i thought just pull your shirt out and let the ball fall out but i dont think i would want players trying to reach the ball first while its falling just in front of my groin.
     
  13. Twister

    Twister FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    21
    I'd panic and run into the goal.
     
  14. keely

    keely FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,403
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    Calgary, Canada
    Aw, Twisty! You really do need to post more often! lol
     
  15. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,585
    Likes Received:
    2,718
    But if an attacker had touched the ball in the D before it dropped into your shirt and you ran into the goal you'd then have to give a goal wouldn't you...? lol
     
  16. Twister

    Twister FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    21
    Yes.

    How to lose friends and alienate people...
     
  17. johnreiss

    johnreiss FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    Messages:
    713
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    teesside
    Reminds me of an incident some years back when yellowed players normally placed behinf their own goal. Ump had yellowed a defender when an opposition attacker is clean through with just the GK to beat. GK is beaten and attacker pushes the ball towards the empty net. 100% it would have been a goal but for the yellowed defender running onto the pitch and stopping the ball with his stick. Subsequently he plays the ball towards the ump who is still on the pitch.

    So the ump cannot give a goal as the ball has not entered the goal. Is a PS + RC sufficient? What did the ump do? (hint - the ball is still "live").

    Wonder if anyone will guess 100% right. Incidentally the answer does not conform to the WRITTEN rules but morally spot on!
     
  18. Snoody

    Snoody FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    Likes Received:
    107
    Ump kicks it into the goal...?
     
  19. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    3,951
    Likes Received:
    414
    Location:
    Oxford, UK
    hmm - i've heard this story before
    he kicks it into the goal
     
  20. keely

    keely FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,403
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    Calgary, Canada
    We've all heard this story before, about a million times!

    I believe that's what made it so funny in the first place, red! :rolleyes: Just imagining Twisty running around the circling squealing, arms aflailin', until he ends up in the goal, then the slow dawning of realization...

    <sigh> It was funnier the first time 'round. ;)
     

Share This Page