Management & Communication Policy over Function? For example: Umpiring in sunglasses

Discussion in 'Outdoor Umpiring Questions' started by Christian, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Proud to have been involved in the post that draws @redumpire level with @keely, on 10402 posts to FHF. :cool:
     
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  2. careeman

    careeman FHF Legend

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    Some people clearly have too much time on their hands :rolleyes:
     
  3. Ravennghorde

    Ravennghorde FHF All Time Great

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    My observation, based mainly on local summer league umpiring, is that the guys react badly to a properly turned out umpire. Red rag to a bull you might say. Just polishing my cards for tonight... expecting a regular PITA to be playing.
     
  4. CH.ump

    CH.ump FHF Regular Player

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    Know what you mean, however because they are playing a friendly (is it really?) and are happy to let standards drop why should we? Personally I find it impossible to umpire any other way than by doing it the best I can and in all respects including apparel, summer league or winter league. How long before one lets decisions go, where is the line drawn? Stick to what suits best which I guess is what you are going to do,
     
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  5. UmpireHockey.com

    UmpireHockey.com FHF All Time Great

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    Maybe they've never been told.

    Was referring to teaching umpires. I tell them, "Don't wear sunglasses with dark colored lenses." And, then I explain why.

    Learning by Experience: "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that" - Douglas Adams"
     
  6. ADT

    ADT FHF Newbie

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    This has been a fascinating thread, but I've got to question where in the world some of those on the "don't wear sunglasses" side of the debate are. Without speaking for the other Aussies (OP is one, I note), I would've thought that with so many people wearing sunglasses in day-to-day life that perhaps we're less put off by someone wearing them when they umpire? I've umpired in sunglasses when I've needed to (often after playing in sunglasses), and I've been umpired by those in sunglasses and don't have a problem with it. There are plenty of other things to take issue with in regards to how someone gets ready to umpire, before you need to start worrying about sunglasses.
     
  7. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

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    The majority of other issues don't have a solution as simple, direct and easily applied as just not wearing sunglasses. It's not an intuition thing that requires years to master (if ever) or a positioning problem that takes several games to actively resolve, or a rules problem that could take anywhere from a minute of reading to weeks of FHF discussion.
     
  8. AJF

    AJF FHF Legend

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    If you have to, wear a cap! Speaking from experience, I got my FIH badge wearing a cap in some games during that tournament... I wouldn't choose to, but the sun made it necessary. I wouldn't wear sunglasses though, eye contact is a big part of connecting with players I feel, even if it's a quick knowing glance to let them know you've seen something.
     
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  9. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Is tell/know the difference at the root of this, and every other contentious issue, of umpire discussion, advice, coaching or training? In academia, it's the difference between Pedagogy (filling children's minds with knowledge) and Andragogy (leading self-directed adults to knowledge). In folklore: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink

    We're dealing with sports officials, whose entire raison d'etre is to make decisions, their own decisions, sticking by them unless there is compelling evidence from a colleague, a player owning up, or some decision review system (if available). "Do as I say" simply does not cut it. The self-directed adult needs to know, or at least accept the possibility, of that bad thing (apologies for the Trump-speak) tracing it's roots back to 'something I did'. But we're not done yet. They still need to make the "won't do that again" decision. And the baddest possible thing an adviser, coach, trainer can do is to interrupt that thought-process with a bit of pedagogy like "You must...". Treat a self-directed adult like a child and they become a child, stamp their little foot, and cry "Says who?" and "Shan't!". Explain as much as you like. It won't be heard. If someone is wrong on the Internet, go to bed.

    If "tell them" is what you do, then knowing what happened over the last 5 pages might learn you something... :rolleyes:
    Or maybe not. :(
     
    #89 Diligent, Aug 3, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  10. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

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    I think the structural issue we are dealing with is that guidance is given by way of regulation and many of those who read said regulations assume they are dogma or doctrine. Certainly that is how the opening stages of this discussion started out.
    Various contributors declared it was simply unacceptable and must not be done and others declared that as a ridiculous position.

    Trying to read correctly your philosophical approach @Diligent my appraisal is that it is the same as mine, please correct me if I am wrong, but it can be summed up thus: "We should make decisions in good faith based on our best knowledge and be prepared to rise and fall based on how good those decisions are, knowing that it is our decision making which defines our success."

    However I wonder if that is neutered by regulations which are illogical in certain instances and if a very good umpire who chooses not to damage their retinas by staring at a very very bright pitch in mid-summer Victorian sun by wearing sunglasses will be penalise unfairly because they are wearing sunglasses despite the fact that the game was umpired perfectly well. Those doing the assessments are not always those with the greatest circumspection and we can see in the UK in various walks of life, (OFSTED, ATOS etc.) that those whose job it is to assess stuff, without fail, fall into the tick-box mentality where certain things are written off as anathema without any further thought. Whether the decision to decry those things as anathema was a good one is not relevant and a good umpire has just lost an opportunity because somoene cannot think for themselves.

    I know one of the pitches I umpire at regularly is simply unusable in the winter months after around 15:30 without sunglasses if you are umpiring on the East side of the pitch. The sun is at eye level and if you need to look further than about 1/3 of the way into the pitch, a cap does nothing as you must raise your head straight into a low bright sun. There is only one solution and without it you simply cannot see.
    I appreciate @AJF making the point that he learned in a cap and so-forth but with the greatest of respect, Peffermill in Mid-summer is not going to give you retina damage. Sport City in Doha may just.
     
  11. AJF

    AJF FHF Legend

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    Actually Portugal in mid summer, international tournament.

    Edit: sunglasses could be used, but if the players can handle a match not wearing them, then I can deal with it too.
     
  12. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

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    That's a fair point, and I am happy to be corrected on it. But do you understand what I am saying, there are parts of the world where sunglasss are a health issue not style or convenience based.
    Furthermore as you will maybe appreciate at your latitude, the low winter sun can, in the more exposed location, make seeing across pitch without a light filter over one's eye near impossible.
     
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  13. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Approx 30 posts are being moved to The Off Topic Thread. If you have more views on why andragogy is egregious, on what's the point of changing a title, where one might obtain a false beard, or whatever... please go there and post them.

    It may be there is little more to add on the matter at hand, which was (I think): those on the side of authority and convention who insist on "wear what we say", versus the put-upon umpires who push back, with "I'll wear what I want/need".

    Or maybe it spiralled off because we're done? Let's see...
     
    #93 Diligent, Aug 7, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
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  14. sanabas

    sanabas FHF All Time Great

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    Or more broadly: Is it wrong to be unconventional? Particularly unconventional in dress/appearance? Especially when in a position of authority over people who might have a lesser opinion of you if you're unconventional/don't conform to their expectations.
     
  15. BlindGoalie613

    BlindGoalie613 FHF All Time Great

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    This reflexively kicked off my gag reflex and triggered a whole load of uni games memories.
     
  16. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

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    Nah, that's just a re-phrasing of the same question but with a deliberately much more negative set of words to try to put a natural emphasis on your side of the argument.
     
  17. SPetitt

    SPetitt FHF All Time Great

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    I have to say, having become more aware of this topic, that i recently saw, on TV, two people (outdoors on a sunny day) wearing v dark sunglasses approach a third , to interview her.
    Their specs certainly looked, to me, inappropriate for a TV interview and, in fact, the leader of the interview took off his glasses as he approached the interviewee, That appeared completely natural and appropriate, for a face to face, outdoor TV interview.
    I have never worn completely 'black' lensed glasses ... mine are 'Transitions', and I wouldn't feel uncomfortable just speaking to a player in them, nor do I believe they look too 'dead-eyed' (like the mirrored/'Secret Service' types).
    I really don't think the players are looking at your face that much for most of the time ... they look out for whistles and signals... but that they should be able to see your eyes(at least to some extent), if they approach you (or vice versa) for some sort of discussion.
    As an umpire coach/assessor i would just look at a sun-spectacled umpire and give my personal feedback on a case-by-case basis ,,,, of course, if they have photochromics, that assessment should be made in playing conditions, not in the bar!!
     
  18. UmpireHockey.com

    UmpireHockey.com FHF All Time Great

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    Not needed. The words you used in rest of your post more than made up for it. :D
     
  19. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Agreed the players don't often look at the umpire's face. Maybe more important that the umpire should be looking for reactions to any decision. If players just get on with it, then fine: it must have been right. If there is a question, the umpire needs to react with a word, a gesture, something to explain or improve matters. If players are getting that reassurance, sunglasses don't matter. For an umpire who misses those signs, sunglasses might make things worse.

    Some umpires are good enough for sunglasses to make no difference, other umpires really ought not to wear them.
     
    #99 Diligent, Aug 10, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  20. SPetitt

    SPetitt FHF All Time Great

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    "Might" is a key word .. I am unaware of there being any evidence one way or another
    I found that a selection from : an inclination of the head, raising the eyebrows, a knowing glance over the top edge of my rimless specs, a smile, and a small hand gesture ... for example something which obviously says "Don't do that!"... (and probably a few other non-verbal messages) seemed adequate. But YMMV ... it is, as with so much of umpiring, a matter of finding and doing what works for you.
    We don't all have the ability to use our eyes like Pierluigi Collina :eek:... but he had some other very telling 'non-verbals, as well .

    And if they are 'not good enough', then I'd suggest that their attire is not among the first things which should be addressed ;)
     

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