Penalty Stroke Competition: Managing an odd situation

Discussion in 'PS and Goalkeeping' started by keely, Sep 4, 2008.

  1. controller

    controller FHF Legend

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    I know I would have given you a card for something but what, at this time of night on a Friday with a bottle of Red wine inside me.
    The taker has touched the ball, but the ball has not moved forward or come of the spot......
     
  2. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    First of all, I'd give you a green for using my nickname so casually on the forum. Second, I'd upgrade it to a yellow for failing to post for so long. Then a red for not emailing me all freaking summer!

    But personal vendettas aside... ;)

    Is the correct answer: cry?

    Seriously now, I guess I'd try to catch you before you get to the ball and call the mulligan then.
     
  3. CardHappy

    CardHappy FHF Legend

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    Well, I suppose I asked for that..

    I hoped you would say that you catch me b4 I got to the ball... especially as I'm not exactly moving to quick at the moment!

    For me, I would hope that I would stop the stroke from being taken and head off the obvious comments from the keeper by saying something along the line of

    "Yes, he knocked the ball but it only went forward as far as you are off the line... so lets have another go.."

    I know of a certain NL selector that would tell you that you should immediately penalise the attacker, but I feel that would probably go against what you had been trying to do all through the game..

    Saying that, if that attacker had pis**d you off all game... they're fair game!! ;)
     
  4. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    Yes, I think anything you say should be 'light' ..... no-one has really 'offended', just a 'hiccup', and you want to give a moment for all to 'settle' :)
     
  5. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    Whistle blown, ball moved, come to rest, Stroke over.

    I might, probably would, reset, in a junior/ inept level with no sheep stations at stake.
    Definitely not in a highly competitive situation


    WAAAAAAAAAAAY to long, IMO , wearing either my GK helmet, or umpire sunhat.. :p


    I give an internal count of 2: blow , one, two , blow, finish.

    Since the ( ridiculous? ) decision to remove the "Player ready goalie ready" because of possible problems in what ? one in ten/100? thousand games, the time delay has been allowed to extend ridiculously, ( with added feinting, as they'd say in adverts :) )

    It is VERY stressful to be up on the toes, ready to move with as much "explosive" muscle force as you can manage, for more than that second or two.
     
  6. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    keely,

    finally one I can actually comment on as it may have some relevance.

    The defending team had a 16 yard hit and the ball was in there circle....ball had travelled and stopped naturally there..

    The player decided to advance it to the 16 as is his "right" (I have to make a post elsewhere on this).

    Enthusiastic as I was....yelled its taken and charged for the ball. The umpire blew his whistle and told me no it wasnt and reset the play.

    Both parties knew that something was amiss and the umpire calmed the situation down by a simple calming gesture.

    As far as your penalty stroke goes....I had one of those in a semi final...

    the goalie decided to come out and play with the ball and place it some where on the spot...the attacker can out and moved it to somewhere else...a matter of cm. the goalie said first time that its taken.

    I told him "No, he is placing the ball and no LEGITIMATE attempt at the ball had been played." that seemed to quell the firey tempers we get in some teams here.


    I would do the same after the whistle...and it also goes with the "Spirit of the rules" rule.

    and I second guess many decisions especially the ones that cause a grievance later...it is what makes us a better umpire.
     
  7. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    Can you clarify that last sentence, please, FB?
    Do you mean that you try to take actions which you judge will make later whingeing less likely?
     
  8. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    thanks for asking Justin,

    I wont take actions to change the decision so it makes less whinging....

    I would first ask myself..

    Was I in the right position to view the offence.

    did I allow advantage or blow quick enough.

    Did I SELL the decision.

    If I have applied all these factors I get less whinging. If I still get whinging and think about it and cant figure out what went wrong....I ask others then maybe chalk it up to player ignorance to the rule.

    like last weekend....

    A player on a free hit 1 m from the cirlce...dragged it into the circle (like an injection from a short corner). after the whistle was blown and the subsequent question and answer period It turned into a red card for him. he got mouthy told me to f* off, asked how many games I had watched lately...told me it was f* bulls* after being awarded for his complinments to my umpiring with a yellow...and talked his way into a red.

    I still look at it and see if it was something I COULD have approached it differently and allowed him the chance to stay on the field.

    starting umpiring I was abused every week by my own club mates...week in week out...I was told that was a bad call...but week after week I would go home and use resources I knew to make my umpiring better. towards the end of the season I overheard them saying my umpiring had really improved.

    I still think that once you think your too good to try and better yourself as an umpire you will stagnate.
     
  9. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Exactly the spirit in which I approached this thread. Thanks again to everyone for the additional thoughts, it's been a very valuable discussion for me.
     
  10. controller

    controller FHF Legend

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    I will start another thread on this else where but that is the problem with clubs, umpiring and hockey. :boring:
     
  11. John

    John FHF Legend

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    Everyone knows this is nowhere
    this is clearly wrong, whilst there is always room for discussion (especially after the match), there is never any room for abuse in a match.
     
  12. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    I've said it before somewhere (Keely, help?), but I'll say it again: I'm perfectly happy for players to talk with me during a game; once they start talkking at me that's a different matter entirely.
     
  13. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    you can say this about any scenario....at the time I was learning...another umpire MAY have given up. While your perfectly right....it MADE me think of new ways to deal with the situations...I became policeman like and that stopped em going on after the first comment. IT actually made me a more confident umpire whereas others could have cracked.

    Its not a viable option to use this as an example where abuse is accepted...in AUS we just have beers and laugh after the game....we knew each other and they had played at the state level, and were used to the higher level umpires. By reacting to the way I umpired I drew my umpiring in line with what they expected.....consistancy, fairness, and most of all positioning to see the fouls.

    now I will clarify...abuse falls into a broad category....all they really did was ask in various tones why a foul was or wasnt gven. why I missed a foot....stupid things. They did the same to me when I played on their team after a couple of seasons.

    I dont allow players to talk AT me now...as I have that experience...
     
  14. Snoody

    Snoody FHF All Time Great

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    Absolutely with you on that, Red. Have calmed a couple of 'tasty' occasions by using that very line to players. Thankfully, they reacted positively and the games went on far better. But it needs to be spelled out very clearly and very early (preferably before the match to the team skippers).
     

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