"Own Goal" rule clarification

Discussion in '2013 Official FIH Rules Book' started by david offord, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. Chris Malaysia

    Chris Malaysia FHF Starter

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    Thanks, you guys are really helpful! Cheers
     
  2. Hockeyfish

    Hockeyfish FHF All Time Great

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    Edited for pedantry...
     
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  3. Justin

    Justin FHF Super Star

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    As you raised the point of "an attacker being close by", it might be worth saying that the two situations are subtly different. If there were the 'an attacker close by', he could, in the event of a hit from outside, tap-in, for a goal, whereas, if the ball had not left the circle he could not!
     
  4. Ridge

    Ridge FHF Star Player

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    Maybe that is why they were two completely different statements?
     
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  5. Gold

    Gold FHF Top Player

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    For A, I can't see anything but a "play on", as the defender (who was on the goal line) gained no advantage and the attack was not disadvantaged. Why is a PC justified?
     
  6. DavidBurns

    DavidBurns FHF Legend

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    cant say id agree with that,

    if there are no players around, a defender should have plenty of time to get out of the way of a ball hit in from outside the d.
    if they chose to play it and not settle for a 15m hit i would deem that enough to award a pc
     
  7. Kilmory

    Kilmory Administrator
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    As I have said previously on one of the MANY topics that seem to be discussing it. Defenders will really have to be a lot more attentive as to what is going on around them and have a lower threshold as to what they leave to go out for a 16. Before the worst that could happen a to concede a corner if they miss trapped it, now it could be a goal. If I shout "Leave it" I expect it to be left.
     
  8. kaiwawao

    kaiwawao FHF Regular Player

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    Question: On what grounds / rule breach would you give a PC for?

    Question: If the defender was involved in the same situation but positioned near the half way line, again with no-one around, no attackers nearby etc would you award a FH to the opposition or play on?

    If the former, fine, I accept your view though I disagree. If the latter then you are giving the wrong decision in awarding a PC. An accidental contact in the D should be not be blown differently (as opposed to differently penalty awarded) for a scenario you would play on from were the exact same contact elsewhere on the pitch.

    12.1 instructs us

    Advantage : a penalty is awarded only when a player or team has been disadvantaged by an opponent breaking the
    Rules.
     
  9. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    post deleted as it was utter nonsense and would have just served to confuse!
     
  10. kaiwawao

    kaiwawao FHF Regular Player

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    Sorry, let me reword this as the question was obviously too poorly written.

    The defender is hit accidentally, the ball would have gone out of play for a FHD otherwise, there was no intention on the part of the defender quoted by the OP. 12.1 makes clear no offence unless opponent is disadvantaged.

    What offence has a defender, hit on the foot by a ball injected from outside the D with no opposition nearby (the incident you would wave play on in midfield) committed?
     
  11. Gold

    Gold FHF Top Player

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    Redumpire, I can see how you can interpret this as requiring a PC - if "normally" means a PC where the ball has passed outside the circle before a shot at goal has been made from within the circle. But surely that is taking the guidance too literally - it cannot override the principle set out as Rules 12.1:
    Advantage : a penalty is awarded only when a player or team has been disadvantaged by an opponent breaking the
    Rules.
    In this circumstance, the feet has only prevented the ball going over the goal line and, had it done so, it would have resulted in a 15m hit
     
  12. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Gold & kaiwawao Sorry, I thought we were discussing a shot at a PC. My bad... Ignore me: it's been a busy week and I'm going to bed soon!
     
  13. kaiwawao

    kaiwawao FHF Regular Player

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    See I thought we WERE discussing a PC situation where the ball is hit out of the D by the injector and hit in from outside, now I am a bit confused?

    I thought that in a scenario where a ball is played by a player and is received by an opposition player in clear space anywhere on the pitch (outside the D) with no-one nearby, that runs into the foot, we are advised to play on as there is no disadvantage (you usually shout the equivalent of "play on, no-one near you" or similar).

    So now my confusion, I can't see how a PC is the decision overriding 12.1 when we play on outfield? What change of rule applies if that exact scenario is relocated to the D during a PC situation - just so that I know for reference the rule that the defender has broken if the play is in the D rather than outfield?

    I hope that makes sense, long day for me too!


    Thanks
     
  14. Ridge

    Ridge FHF Star Player

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    I think the difference has to be how the ball was stopped by the defender. Did the defender take the majority of the pace off the ball with the stick and then the ball just touched their foot after a bad trap? Or did they completely miss the ball with their stick and then stop the ball with their foot?
     
  15. DavidBurns

    DavidBurns FHF Legend

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    kaiwawao

    The question by Chris Malaysia didnt give any details of attacks being disadvantaged.

    so in response to that, which is a foot in the d by a defender. personally i dont agree with the statement that it could only be play on.

    if there is a lot of contact with the stick and the ball trickles onto a foot, then yes id let it go.

    if its hits they player full on the foot from that distance then id punish it. in the circle or the middle of the park
     
  16. jayjay

    jayjay FHF Legend

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    well, if it hits the stick first, pop over the stick, is travelling towards the goal line and is then stopped by that defender's foot on/in front of the line, surely it has to be a PS? ;) after all, the stick touch now makes it goal scoring if it goes in; if the foot stops it from going in, PS.

    for what its worth, i didnt understand Chris's question to refer to a PC situation. then again, why would a defender be guarding their goal line sans GK in an open play situation? very odd :S
     
  17. DavidBurns

    DavidBurns FHF Legend

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    Yes it would be p.s proving that it's heading towards the goal with enough pace to get there.
    No I didn't fully understand why a defender would attempt to play the ball in that situation, given the new rules.
    So to me if they have played at the ball, wanting to continue with open play not take a hit out, and it hits a foot I'd be happy awarding a pc.
     
  18. Gold

    Gold FHF Top Player

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    We seem to be implying different things into the situation. For me, there is no mention of the defender playin the ball with his stick - if there had been, the potential for a goal to be scored arises and any subsequent foot stop on the line would have prevented a probable goal, so a PS (not a PC) should be awarded. If the next touch (after the hit by the attacker from outside the circle) is the accidental feet on the line, the defender has not stopped a probable goal - only the ball going off for a 15m.
     
  19. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    And Hockey in England is playing to this new rule already?
    Must be interesting in lower leagues.:)
     
  20. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    First game completed under new rules today. Reports of end of world as we know it appear to have been exaggerated. Sky still firmly in place.
     
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