"Own Goal" rule clarification

Discussion in '2013 Official FIH Rules Book' started by david offord, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Welcome, Justinmk! :)

    If you were 100% sure that the lift was unintentional and it wasn't dangerous to any defending field players then a goal would be the correct decision.

    Personally, I'd be very dubious that a ball hit into the circle which "just happened" to be lifted and "just happened" to go extremely close to the GK was genuinely unintentional... I obviously wasn't there, but going on the info you've given I think I'd have given a free hit to the defence for an intentionally lifted hit.
     
  2. Paul Watts

    Paul Watts FHF All Time Great

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    but from 16+ yards away, unless it was an absolute rocket, surely it should have been dealt with o_O
     
  3. Kilmory

    Kilmory Administrator
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    Sounds like a goal to me. Keeper should have got out of the way.
     
  4. Gold

    Gold FHF Top Player

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    I'd tend to agree with Redumpire. Also, in considering whether or not the unintentionally raised ball was dangerous, regard should be had, in addition to whether or not anyone was physically endangered, whether it was likely to lead to dangerous play; except where the circle was relatively clear of players (especially attackers), I think I would judge it to be dangerous
     
  5. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Just to be clear: if the ball is deliberately lifted from a hit that is not a shot a goal (that's any hit, even a hit in open play, not just a free hit), danger is not a consideration: the action is in and of itself against the rules.
     
  6. Ridge

    Ridge FHF Star Player

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    Welcome to the forum!

    As I am sure you know, danger is something that only you can decide in the heat of the moment. In your scenario, you said it wasn't dangerous, so it wasn't dangerous. The ball then touched a defender and went into the goal. Under the new experimental rules, a goal would be the correct decision given your description.

    One thing you will hear often on this forum though is, YHTBT (You Had To Be There).
     
  7. Ridge

    Ridge FHF Star Player

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    Wow, 5 posts in the time it took me to write my posts!
     
  8. Justin

    Justin FHF Super Star

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    I agree.... (yes:eek: ...except that I'd be doubtful, rather than dubious:p .

    I also think that the UMB advice "Don't think lifted, think danger" sends an incorrect message, where hits into the circle are concerned ....personally, I'd like to see all such significantly lifted hits regarded as intentional and penalised ...they will almost certainly disadvantage the defending team, especially with the 'own goal rule' in force.

    A well-qualified umpire said to me " I saw so many examples in the Games of lifted hits by the best players in the world that you could not in good judgement give the benefit of the doubt that (all) the hits were accidental"

    And welcome, Justinmk, from another Justin, who used to play for MK :)
     
  9. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    That advice is quite simply contrary to the rules
    Think "Intentional?" always,- if there's time before "danger", if any occurs
    Then of course there's advantage, pedantry...etc to be considered.
     
  10. Justinmk

    Justinmk FHF Newbie

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    excellent thanks all - attacker was actually intending to hit the ball to the far post for a deflection by another attacker running in - however completely mishit the ball hitting into the ground and then up and left of where he was aiming i.e. at the keeper and then in....

    thanks for the welcome :)
     
  11. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Fair enough. In that case, yes it was a goal.
     
  12. AndyTheUmp

    AndyTheUmp FHF Starter

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    Ok.... I'll have a go and see what comments are made from those with far more experience than me. If by around top of the pads you're saying above the knee then DFH. If not, then goal!

    Discuss... :)
     
  13. AndyTheUmp

    AndyTheUmp FHF Starter

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    OK... My browser singularly failed to show all the other comment, so ignore me!
     
  14. Trig

    Trig FHF Legend

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    Goal.

    And even if an outfield player was on the line, it sounds like they would have had plenty of time to react to the ball so probably a goal in that situation too!
     
  15. CardWaver

    CardWaver FHF Reserve Player

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    had my first 'own goal' at tournament this weekend - but i didnt give it as :
    B all hammered in from outside, forward misses it, defender alledgedly gets touch, I didn't spot any change in line of ball and didn't hear anything to make me think it got a touch ... strangest enough the bench did though !! does this mean we are going to now have numerous speculative hits into d with attackers claiming touch off defender? or was it just a learning situation ? .... ( had to laugh though as had friendly chat with forward question who asked if it would have helped if he wheeled away and ran to half way ;-/ )
    CW
     
  16. Ballingdon

    Ballingdon FHF Top Player

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    Yes, I had one of those : ball hit straight towards centre of goal from middle of 23 , GK 4m off her line. centre forward about 8m out both in the centre. Ball goes through the legs of the keeper and the CF goes up , in a less than fully convinced manner. I was just ahead of square with the keeper - heard nothing, did look like a deviation, partner was about 30m away towards the sideline. No way was I giving a goal no matter how much she appealed :)
    This is the way it will be from now on.. experimentally of course.
     
  17. Chris Malaysia

    Chris Malaysia FHF Starter

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    Hi Guys,

    Please have a look at the attached image. Let me know what you guys think?

    Scenario as per below:

    A. Attackers hits the ball from outside circle and it hits defender's foot on the goal line. What is the decision?
    B. Attackers hits the ball from outside circle and it hits defender's foot and goes into goal. What is the decision?

    I would assume Penalty Corner should be awarded on both situation?
     

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  18. sanabas

    sanabas FHF All Time Great

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    A. Probably a PC, but possibly play on. Definitely not a PS.
    B. Goal
     
  19. Trig

    Trig FHF Legend

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    A = PC

    B = Goal
     
  20. ivyleague

    ivyleague FHF Top Player

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    A = PC (not including various interpretations regarding a foot being a foul, or variations including an attacker being close by etc) - not a PS as it has not stopped a goal scoring opportunity or a certain goal. I liken this one to the ball not leaving the D at a PC and the ball hitting defenders foot on line.

    B = Goal, ball can be played by stick or body for a goal to be scored.

    Good questions!
     
    alex.miles likes this.

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