"own goal" experiences this season so far

Discussion in '2013 Official FIH Rules Book' started by Zakalwe, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. phi11ip

    phi11ip FHF Top Player

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    Ball wellied into the D, hits an attackers stick and is going wide. The ball then hits the umpires foot on the ground and rockets into the top corner. (It was the oppositions umpire which is why this is going in the 'own goal' thread and I'm not starting a new one!! I'm also lazy...)

    Anyways, in football it's a goal. What about hockey? I don't think it is for some reason, but haven't got the rules handy. The umpire didn't give the goal in the game and nobody really moaned barring one of our players who tried to claim it's a goal under the own goals rule.

    No arguing this time either!
     
  2. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Rule 11.8 applies:
    It should have been a goal... Having said that I don't blame the umpire for having disallowed it in the circumstances described - and it's impressive that 'his' team didn't complain.
     
  3. Kilmory

    Kilmory Administrator
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    Reading it, the Ump put it into 'his' team's net. That's why it's an 'own goal'.

    As you know, it's just a goal - plain and simple. Hits an attacker's stick in the D and comes off an umpire into the goal. In effect the umpire is just a part of the field so it's the same as it going in off the post. Perhaps you should have kicked up a bit more of a fuss.
     
  4. Hockeyfish

    Hockeyfish FHF All Time Great

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    I've had similar, but I get perverse enjoyment out of a slightly different response:
    Angry - "It hit his foot!"
    Me - "Yes, it did".

    It kind of forces them to then say "...so it's a PC isn't it?" Gets them thinking about whether there is indeed an automatic element to it! By which time the long corner is normally underway and the "conversation" peters out.
     
  5. phi11ip

    phi11ip FHF Top Player

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    I know it's not an own goal in the game, I'm just (poorly) trying to justify why a completely non-own-goal incident deserves to go into the own-goal thread!

    It was a pretty good finish though...!
     
  6. sanabas

    sanabas FHF All Time Great

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    Sarcastic - "Just ignore the foot, then!"
    Me - "No worries."
     
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  7. Craggsy

    Craggsy Beikou Hockey founder
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    This seems like the best place to post this, didn't realise so many players were opposed to it.

    "@JamieDwyer01: I hate the own goal rule in hockey and I'm sure over 80% of international players don't like it. @FIH_Hockey @MoritzFuerste @knowlesy09"

    "@nicojacobi: @JamieDwyer01 @fih_hockey @moritzfuerste @knowlesy09 I think 80% is far too little #killowngoalrule"

    "@MoritzFuerste: @JamieDwyer01 @fih_hockey @knowlesy09 it might take some time till those who are responsible will here us... #nevergiveup #killowngoalrule"

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
     
  8. Zakalwe

    Zakalwe FHF Newbie

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    Over the 12/13 season for my club, in the list of leading goalscorers, own goals came third!

    Zak
     
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  9. Doyley

    Doyley FHF Starter

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    I told one of my defenders in the first game of the season just because he can doesn't mean he should... then went on to score 2 in the game myself. 1 new style where it was hit in to the d and I went to stop it reverse side, only to roof it (nice finish, shame it was unintentional and at the wrong end) and 2nd was old style where cross to p spot from inside d and I deflected in. Still not lived it down even though I finished season top scorer!
     
  10. jayjay

    jayjay FHF Legend

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    we had some real confusion two weeks ago, when an own goal was scored from a 15m defence hit out. the girl on the left wanted to pass the ball to the middle defender in the D. the pass was sloppy, the middle defender mis-stopped the ball and the keeper did nothing at all while the ball rolled into the goal ever so slowly. the umps actually had to stop time to discuss whether it should be a goal or not. both coaches going berserk on the sidelines. at least they reached the right decision in the end *shakeshead*
     
  11. SAUmp

    SAUmp FHF Legend

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    Joining this thread late, so apologies if this has already been debated. What I am noticing more and more in free play and at PCs, is that players smash it as soon as they approach the vicinity of the circle. Keepers and defenders reflexively try to make a save or deflect and I have seen a few cross the goal line. Can see an adaptation to this rule coming soon that forces the attacking side to take the first "shot on goal" inside the D otherwise the own goal deflection will not apply
     
  12. Gilly

    Gilly FHF Legend

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    I'm not sure I get what you are saying there SAUmp. If there is a shot at goal from inside the circle (any touch of the ball by an attacker really) any subsequent deflection by a defender would not be an own goal!

    It is just 'a goal' and was so even before the rule change?!
     
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  13. DavidBurns

    DavidBurns FHF Legend

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    With Gilly

    Thats not changed with the introduction of the own goal rule
     
  14. Waxy

    Waxy FHF Legend

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    Gilly - I agree, as far as I can see SAUmp's suggestion is just a reversion back to the 2011/12 rule... Can't say I disagree with the suggestion though!

    Blasting the ball from outside the D and hoping for a deflection or similar has no skill, no talent and no place in hockey IMO. This rule as it stands just encourages sloppy play and 'hit and hope' tactics from the attackers.

    Didn't they introduce the rule about free hits not being allowed to go straight into the D to stop exactly the same style of play they they are now effectively encouraging it from open play instead? Smash and hope ain't hockey (and that's from a knuckle dragging keeper!)
     
  15. SAUmp

    SAUmp FHF Legend

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    Sorry guys - not clear enough. I was referring specifically to the PC set piece. I have seen a couple this season that have been stopped outside and simply blasted straight at the keeper from a foot or so outside the D. My point was that this exploitation of the new rule would be to force the attacking side to play the ball into the D before shooting. Currently the own goal rule means that the shot can be taken from outside and if it deflects off a defender a goal is scored. I don't think that was the intent!
     
  16. Craggsy

    Craggsy Beikou Hockey founder
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    The more I think about it the more I think they should just scrap it.
     
  17. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    SAUmp - sorry, but I still don't get it. Why not stop the ball outside the D, move it forward a couple if centimetres and then hit it once it's in the circle? That way you're not relying on a chance deflection to give you a goal. I don't understand why you'd reduce your chance of scoring for the sake of saving a second or so.

    Having said that, I'm not a great fan of the OG rule either.
     
  18. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    That's exactly the intent.

    For hockey to gain significant mainstream popularity, it needs to become easier to understand. The fact that hockey was the only sport in the world where own goals could not be scored wasn't a mark of coolness, it meant that the layperson couldn't understand why the hell the ball was played inside a scoring area and yet the goal didn't count. It's going to take a huge amount of purely negative feedback before the FIH would reverse this change.
     
  19. Stretch

    Stretch FHF Legend

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    Sorry, but I don't follow this logic at all...

    Soccer, arguably the largest and most popular sport globally, has offside. So does Rugby, also big global sport. Yet Offside was removed from hockey or other reasons, and it has made the game better IMO.

    So we can be different to the standard popular sports on one rule, but it's imperative to the survival of our game that we adopt one of their other rules (to the detriment of the skill and finesse of our own sport in many opinions by the looks), just so we're more understandable?

    Offside is harder to understand than "no attacker touch, no score" in my book, and the lay person seems to cope with offside staying put in those sports.

    Realistically offside is just as difficult to umpire as touches in the circle (or lack thereof) were as well!

    I'm just not convinced.

    And redumpire, I have noticed several teams adopting a hard hit straight in from outside on PCs under this new rule. Getting the hit off that second or two earlier is a big advantage as the runner has that much shorter time to get there and pressure said hit. And now any touch by defender or keeper will still mean "goal", you're better off getting the ball in any way you can, even if you don't have players of your own in position to deflect.

    If waiting to get the ball over the line before hitting would mean the runner could clear your hit at the top...(definitely no scoring chance if the runner shuts you down) "hit-and-hope" is very much worth it! "Flick-and-hope" is also being employed for same reason. Good chance it'll go in off the body of a post player and score even if you released outside. And of course the poor old players in the way of such a flick can't claim danger as easily now, as any lifted flick from near the top can be construed as a "shot" if the umpire is of that persuasion!

    I'm not overly impressed that we are allowing flicks from outside to whizz past the head and body of every player in the D because now if it hits a defender and keeps going its a goal...

    Not to mention the stroke that was given recently after a hit outside clipped a defender's stick just inside which sent it onto the foot of a post player standing in front of the lunging keeper's foot. Ball stopped dead on the post players foot, disengaged umpire decided there was no possible way the keeper behind was getting to the defender's accidental touch which would have headed just inside the post for an own goal without having hit the post player's foot... (Never mind that the keeper was still sliding their foot towards the post behind all this and may well have got a toe on it...different issue!)
    stroke given o_O

    I don't know if this decision is valid under the rules...makes it stressful as a keeper though, that's for sure!
     
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  20. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Yes it is disappointing that teams 'exploit' the new rule with 'smash and hope' tactics. But, if Northern Hemisphere experience is anything to go by, it won't last long.

    There might be a few goals at first, but defenders aren't as stupid as most strikers think, and will soon learn to watch the ball go past. Pretty soon everyone will notice that the 'smash and hope' teams are dropping down league tables, losing out to teams with a variety of attacking PC plays. Sure, accidents will still happen, but I doubt you'll see it as a deliberate tactic after the end of June...
     

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