Olympics: Field Goals v PC Goals

Discussion in '2008 Beijing Olympics' started by Feral, Aug 8, 2008.

  1. Mo79

    Mo79 FHF Staff

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    I haven't included todays men's games:

    Some interesting stats i.t.o, when goals are scored.

    The green heading relates to the 1st 5min;last 5min principle.
    The orange relates to the same side scoring a goal,then scoring again within 5minutes.
    The grey relates to scoring,then conceding within 5minutes.Statistically occurs often based on past research from men's world cup & champions trophy.I posted an article way back on the site.

    Food for thought




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  2. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Very interesting. From an umpiring perspective, it's useful to focus on the trends of when goals are scored, and when a team scores consecutively versus scoring and conceding because it helps us be prepared to make big decisions and anticipate when pressure situations are going to arise in the game.

    I hope you continue to update these stats throughout the tournament and repost at the end - I really appreciate you sharing your work on the forum. :)
     
  3. Mo79

    Mo79 FHF Staff

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    Its a pleasure.

    Im a student of the game and sharing doesn't hurt.

    Maybe one day,I'll be on that platform coaching.

    Touch wood
     
  4. Feral

    Feral FHF Regular Player

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    After the pool games the Men's looks like this

    FG = 79 (60%)
    PC = 53 (40%)


    At this stage Grumpy is spot on ;) Is that no surprise?


    Interestingly (excluding PS) the conversion rate from attempts on goals are;

    FG = 79 from 432 = 18%
    PC = 53 from 221 = 24%


    For the Women;

    FG = 55 (49%)
    PC = 57 (51%)


    Conversion rate;

    FG = 55 from 343 = 16%
    PC = 57 from 289 = 20%


    So given these stats why did the attacking teams not create more PC opportunities from field play?
    Was this down to good defending or poor attacking tactics/skills?

    Why would the Women's stats be lower than the Men's? :nerd:
     
  5. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Without a powerful drag flick, a PC unit lacks the big weapon that can be relied on in big games and opens some other options on variations. Drag flicks are a very specific skill that takes years to develop and master, and they simply came to the women's game later than the men's.

    Maartje Paumen has it, but she's the only one who can score on drag flicks consistently against the best teams in the world. Of the rest of the top teams, Crista Cullen shows all signs of getting there in the next quadrennial, Angie Lambert has been close for a few years, Anke Kuhn may get there, Noel Barrionuevo (ARG) shows promise in the coming years but is still young. Below that level, there may be others like Andie Ruston of CAN who gets a nice flick away but not a lot of opportunities to do so.

    I believe that in London, we'll see identical stats between the genders or perhaps the men's game will have gotten away from the drag flick a bit as the PC defensive units around the world find that little edge that reduces their efficacy.
     
  6. Feral

    Feral FHF Regular Player

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    Sorry guys. I got this incorrect. Grumpy has the right %'s but the wrong way round. :sorry:
     
  7. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Well then, that kinda shoot down my thoughts now, doesn't it! lol

    Oh well, leave out the comparisons to the men's side and I think my comments about female dragflickers still hold some water. :)
     
  8. Feral

    Feral FHF Regular Player

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    I tend to agree with you about the females. However I think there is also the factor of physical strength to consider. I think the ladies are not able to have the same level of pace in the drag so the ball is not as fast through the air. Therefore maybe it's easier to intercept the ball.

    As for the men, I think that they are getting better at defending the drag flick. PC variations that work around the defenders/GK will become more finely developed.
     
  9. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Wouldn't it stand to reason then that women are also slower to close the gap which has a profound effect on the angles and ability to intercept the ball, and also slower reflexes to react to the ball in the air?
     
  10. Feral

    Feral FHF Regular Player

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    For the ladies I think that the distances to be covered in defending the PC (left - right movement) we are not talking of much needed to close the angles. But the pace of the ball from the push in and the drag are more relevant. Perhaps the reflex/reaction time is also important.

    A defensive technique that allows the drag/shot from the top of the D but limits the slip/change of direction options may be the way forward.
    The result is that the GK has lots of visibility of ball and can react accordingly. With lots of players in or close to the line of ball travel there are lots of possibilites for errors. I think that was the case in the NED v AUS mens game in which TT got two PCs.
     
  11. PEHC

    PEHC FHF Regular Player

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  12. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    How about you just copy the information here instead of trying to drive traffic to your site? Just a thought.
     
  13. braxer001

    braxer001 FHF Legend

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    This is spot on IMO, but only useful if you have full confidence in your goalie :) And if he/she has confidence in him/herself ;)

    I could see a revival of the PC hit tbh, especially looking for deflections. Maybe not at the international level, but more on the lower-end to high level hockey :)
     
  14. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    yes indeed... the hit and the flat stick deflection is very effective if you nail it... and particularly good in the women's game where the drag flick often lacks the power to be as potent as it is in the men's game.
     
  15. Feral

    Feral FHF Regular Player

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    I use this tactic with my club team. We are not good at winning games, we allow to many FGs. But we can certainly stop PCs. We allow the shot from the top D and most of them are saved by our GK. He regulalry is voted MoM by his team mates for his work. But that suits our team. As you say have a good GK and it works. ;)
     
  16. Feral

    Feral FHF Regular Player

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    Now the games are finally over here is how the stats look.

    MenGoalsShotsConversion Rate
    59%FG10258317%
    39%PC6727524%
    2%PS5683%
    Total17486420%



    WomenGoalsShotsConversion Rate
    50%FG7447316%
    48%PC7137319%
    2%PS44100%
    Total14985018%




    Given these stats I woud like to see the men (and the women) get more PCs from the D penetrations.
    The number of missed FG shots is too high (men; 583 - 102 = 481)

    For my example;
    If only 25% of the 481 D penetrations were converted to PCs we would have had another 28 goals.

    :nerd: :nerd: :) ;)
     
  17. nerd_is_the_word

    nerd_is_the_word FHF All Time Great

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    feral i would be interested to knwo though what classifies as a shot with those statistics. I mean a shot that the keeper saves is obviously a shot, or one that misses the net, but what about the miss hits etc.

    I dont think 17% is that bad, i mean the scoring rate wasnt that low really
     
  18. Feral

    Feral FHF Regular Player

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    NITW, the stats are taken directly from the official Olympics Results website

    I believe that an attempt on goal, saved or missed are included in the numbers.

    If as a coach you were looking to increase the score rate or to maximise the scoring opportunity you may want to look at trends and stats.

    Coincidently from the games I saw on the TV the FGs came from turnovers and the attacking team then had space and numerical superiority.
    On the occassions when attacking play build up was slow and deliberate, the defence had large numbers back and FGs were hard to come by.
    In this scenario I would be coaching that unless you have a clear scoring opportunity (with a high level of probability of succeeding) I would be trying to get PCs.
    There is a lot of work across the whole team goes into getting into the attacking D, so why not maximise the scoring opportunity?

    Just my thoughts. ;)
     
  19. leaping badger

    leaping badger FHF Regular Player

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    who missed that penalty flick? :p

    and i think in regular play, where it has been building up for quite a while deflections seem to be the only likely way of scoring other than to win a PC
     
  20. nerd_is_the_word

    nerd_is_the_word FHF All Time Great

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    Agree with that, but lets face it at that level the defence should be able to stop attackers getting any kind of decent shot away, so the only option is one-time shots and deflections
     

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