goalkeeper swapping gloves for a PC

Discussion in 'PS and Goalkeeping' started by supersofi2, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. supersofi2

    supersofi2 FHF Starter

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    today when i was umpiring one of the goalkeepers after i had blown for a PC went behind his goal to swap gloves.

    during the game he was playing with an obo robo hi rebound rhp and after i had blown for the pc he swapped to the obo cloud gloves.

    forthose who dont know the hi rebound glove does not allow the goalkeeper to lie flat on the floor with their arm straight soby swapping to the obo cloud glove he is allowing himself to lie flat on the floor.

    there was no problem with the glove he just swapped it only for the PC.

    does anyone know the correct ruling on this, i stopped the GK from doing this as i assumed as the striker is not allowed to change their stickfor a PC a goalkeepershouldnt be able to either as they will be gaining an advantage.

    cheers sophie

    Edited by mod to fix thread title spelling
     
  2. Greig1911

    Greig1911 FHF Regular Player

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    Re: golakeeper swapping gloves for a PC

    tbh i was never told there is a rule which stops the goalkeeper doing this as it has been suggested to goalkeepers in the keepers section.
    please though correct me if i am wrong but as i have said i was never taught anything as to this being illegal.
     
  3. G

    G FHF All Time Great

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    Re: golakeeper swapping gloves for a PC

    Nothing in the rules to forbid this. Unless they were significantly delaying by changing gloves then there's nothing wrong with it. NO different to defenders putting a 'box' in or protective headgear on.
     
  4. AndyGaut

    AndyGaut FHF All Time Great

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    Re: golakeeper swapping gloves for a PC

    I think it would be a good idea if we got a FIH ruling on it but I know top flight keepers do it all the time!
     
  5. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Re: golakeeper swapping gloves for a PC

    As the others have said, it's fine under the rules as they stand.
     
  6. supersofi2

    supersofi2 FHF Starter

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    Re: golakeeper swapping gloves for a PC

    cheers guys..my mistake no damage done though team he played for won comfortably..... i think FIH should consider the rulings though the GK is gaining a significant advantage and if the field players cant swap sticks for drag flicking etc surely a gk shouldnt be able to swap gloves. amspeaking as a GK myself so there no bias there.. what you guys think?
     
  7. Magpie

    Magpie Administrator
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    Re: golakeeper swapping gloves for a PC

    supersofi2 I would say that no ruling is required as the GK equipment already has specified dimmensions and as long as the equipment being changed out meets the rules requirements then there is no issue.

    The OBO hi rebound glove DOES allow the GK to perform what you describe, there is a discussion in the GK section on this. The GK either does not know how to use the glove the way it was designed, how to modify the golve (remove the bit inside) or just does not want to learn.
     
  8. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Re: golakeeper swapping gloves for a PC

    Magpie, you're absolutely right. It is just like a field player changing their gloves in preparation for the corner. Hand protectors etc. are primarily for protective purposes, not as an instrument of play as sticks are. The "advantage" provided from changing them is not at all to the same degree as swapping sticks.

    Can we correct the spelling in the topic name so that it will be found when people do searches of the forum?
     
  9. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    YOU'll remember keely.
    We know we can rely on you. :yes:
     
  10. PabloCasino

    PabloCasino FHF Starter

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    Cheers for this Soph, I was asked about this after the game as well, can you beleive I didn't even notice during the game!
     
  11. azbedwell

    azbedwell FHF Regular Player

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    However I do not think it is really like an outfield player putting on extra protection at a corner

    The goalie is not changing gloves to better protect himself is he? why would he change out of gloves he feels are safe enough for saving fulll blooded hits,drag flicks and general collisions just for a flick? If his normal gloves are safe enough for the game they are fine for the flick

    Therefore he is only changing them to aid his performance, just like a flicker may wish to at a corner. (if they were allowed)

    No I conceed that this may just be a loophole that goalies can exploit, and without changing the rules to prevent players adding protection at corners (never going to happen due to safety) or allowing attackers to change sticks then this loophole (as I see it) will most likely stay open.

    I dont think it is a massive problem but I do not believe that in real terms the goalie changing gloves is not exactly like a defender adding a glove/box and is honestly the same as an attacker changing sticks (even if the amount of help it gives golaie is not as great)
     
  12. NicfromSweden

    NicfromSweden FHF All Time Great
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    i dont see it as a problem really, i dont do it but i used to put a elbowpad on for PC
    the gloves are still whitin the rules
     
  13. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    I do see where you're coming from azbedwell - the keeper's changing equipment to allow them to perform a different skill specific to that set piece - but I don't think you can stop a keeper changing their protective gear...

    If you did that it'd be hard to draw the line and you'd end up saying that no one could change or add any equipment on a PC - no more face masks etc. One of my defenders wears a glove for PCs - she hates playing in it but because she's on the post on a PC she puts it on to protect her knuckles when making stops on the line.
     
  14. jamesev

    jamesev FHF Top Player

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    Although its been said that there is nothing in the rules, I would question what the difference between this and an outfield player changing a stick. Surely if gaining advantage from a specialty piece of kit is not allowed for an outfield player why do keepers get dispensation. I know there is a safey consideration as per the masks worn at PCs but should keepers no be fully kitted for the whole game as they are always in the line of fire. If no advantage is gained by the additional kit, why is it added?
     
  15. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    I haven't seen this in any single game I've ever umpired - and I've umpired a LOT of games at every level possible. If swapping gloves was truly such and advantage, I'd be seeing it with regularity. I'd be very surprised if this isolated incident became a big fad in the future at which point maybe the rule makers would start examining whether an unfair advantage is gained to the same extent that PC drag-flickers afforded themselves with their otherwise inconveniently-bowed sticks.
     
  16. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Also James, as it's not specifically forbidden in the rules an umpire would be acting outside their power if they tried to stop a GK doing it. That's just asking for trouble...
     
  17. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    as per usual keely says nicely and succintly what i completely failed to get across!

    i can see people's point that it could equate to swapping sticks to gain an advantage... but it's not really a great advantage... all it says is "I haven't learnt how to use that glove how it was designed to be used"
     
  18. jamesev

    jamesev FHF Top Player

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    True, I totally agree it not forbidden but it does go down the path of leading questions, why is it done and therefore why can a defending player on a pc not change his or her stick?
     
  19. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    yep. think we can all agree that it's not forbidden - but it's definitely an interesting debate about whether it should be
     
  20. jamesev

    jamesev FHF Top Player

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    I guess it comes down to whether it adds to safety. The nature of the game with PCs has lead to a down the barrel of a gun approach. If keepers feel they are well enough protected whilst not compromising their manouverability during open field play but feel that they need additional protection on PCs then thats one thing.

    If its to specifially aide shot stopping from the drag flick then I don't think it should be allowed. Keepers know that there is a high likely hood of a PC or two in a game and should not be allowed the natural break to put add-ons
     

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