Goalkeeper slide tackle

Discussion in 'Outdoor Umpiring Questions & General Chat' started by LoveHockey, Feb 22, 2015.

  1. LoveHockey

    LoveHockey FHF Newbie

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    I was playing in a juniors game (under 16) and on several occasions when i was running towards the goal looking to cross the ball to the penalty spot, the keeper would run out and slide into me, taking some of the ball, but completely wiping me out. The umpire said that it is legal as they got some of the ball - is this the correct decision or would it be classed as dangerous play?
     
  2. Ravennghorde

    Ravennghorde FHF All Time Great

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    Wrong decision.
     
  3. Willie Rossouw

    Willie Rossouw FHF Starter

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    That my friend is a biased decision,
    ahum...
    "goalkeepers are not permitted to conduct themselves in a manner which is dangerous to other players by taking advantage of the protective equipment they wear"
    Yeah, that should cover it;)

    Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
     
  4. Kilmory

    Kilmory Administrator
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    Yup, wrong decision. Not so much the rule quoted above. Keep it simple:-

    9.13 - players cannot tackle unless in a position to play the ball without bodily contact.
     
  5. Willie Rossouw

    Willie Rossouw FHF Starter

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    Thanks for correcting me Kilmory, must say, I have been caught green carded for doing something like that, at least not on purpose...:p
     
  6. Kilmory

    Kilmory Administrator
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    Not a correction at all @Willie Rossouw - just a simpler rule to use. And it works for any sliding tackle - keeper or not. If the slide/tackle means the contact is inevitable then touching the ball or not is irrelevant.
     
    #6 Kilmory, Feb 22, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2015
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  7. Lacho898

    Lacho898 FHF Star Player

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    I remember a previous thread talking about goalkeepers sliding. From what I can remember, the consensus was that a GK who slid and was moving forwards made inevitable contact should be penalised whereas a keeper who came out and smothered and is therefore stationary or almost stationary, would not be penalised and the call would be play on. That's the way I generally umpire the rule (subject to YHTBT of course.)
     
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  8. Kilmory

    Kilmory Administrator
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    Well yes, if the keeper is stationary then it must be the forward who causes the contact. At least that's how I try and make it look when I wipe someone out ;)
     
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  9. cjbeck23

    cjbeck23 FHF Top Player

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    @Kilmory just wondering (as a goalie myself) if an attacker is running up the baseline and plays a pass back to the penalty spot and the goalie runs out dives intercepts the ball with his stick and takes out the attacker should (from what you have said above ) be a PC as the attacker does not have the ball and the goalie has took him out?
    Sorry thats the best wayIi can think to describe the situation.
     
  10. Kilmory

    Kilmory Administrator
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    As a goalie, not an umpire, I would say not. The attacker doesn't have the ball, so the keeper has every right to go for it. I'm imagining this more of a coming together of players rather than a foul. If the umpire thinks you took him out deliberately though, that would still be a PC.
     
  11. Dan Quinton

    Dan Quinton FHF Top Player

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    So if the consensus in this example is wrong decision, I presume the right decision has to be PS?
     
  12. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

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    Because the ball is tackled away, the attacker no longer has possession, nor probably any opportunity to play the ball. So it's only a PC as far as the OP is concerned.
    However, the recklessness and/or intent to contact could each merit a card. Being lax in care might be a GC; high risk without consideration might get a 5YC; clearly aiming to take down a player would surely be a 10YC.
     
  13. Frank183

    Frank183 FHF Top Player

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    To me it has to do with (controlled) ball possession of the attacker. As a goalie I'm waiting for the split second where the attacker is *not* in controlled possession and then I make my move which might be a sliding tackle. It would be stupid to attack when he is in controlled possession as any halfway skilled player would push or flick the ball next to you for an easy goal.

    Blindly plowing into the player would be reckless even if you also touch the ball in the process and should be a foul and possibly a card.

    On the contrary there are attackers who are running at full speed head down and therefore don't see the gk coming. And then the gk makes a clean slide on the open ball and the attacker crashes into the goalie. Which then should be a FHD. But of course there is a grey zone in between which is rather difficult to judge ...
     
  14. sanabas

    sanabas FHF All Time Great

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    As a goalie, I got the ball, you ran into me and fell over, so play on.

    As an umpire, depends. Might be the goalie at fault. Might be play on because you didn't see the keeper laying there and fell over him. Or you did see him, tried to go around/changed direction, which meant you fell over. If it's a close call, I'll probably go with play on. Would have to forfeit my goalies' union membership otherwise.

    Would have to be really bad for me to think it's a PS. Goalie tried to make a clean slide tackle, didn't manage it, I'm probably going with PC. For PS, it'd have to be a blatant effort to take out the player (so PS for deliberate), or something like the goalie already beaten, forward dribbling for open goal, then gets ankle tapped by goalie's stick making final desperate attempt to knock the ball away, so PS for stopping a probable goal.
     
  15. AJF

    AJF FHF Legend

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    But if the intent is to take the ball and the player, then it would be a deliberate foul, then it could also be a PS and probably a card. Also the OP isn't quite clear what was taken first, ball or body.


    If the attacker has a chance of playing the ball and scoring and the goalie takes him out, it would be a PS. If the guy has no chance of playing the ball, it would be a PC. In your situation it would more than likely be a card too for reckless play!
     
  16. LoveHockey

    LoveHockey FHF Newbie

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    In my case, I had self taken a long corner and was running along the base line towards goal. I must have only been 3 metres into the D and i look up and the goal keeper comes out and slides into me, hitting my leg first then hitting into my knee with his helmet and finally taking the ball. He did this 3 times and the umpire only once awarded a PC as they said on the other occasions he took the ball first.
     
  17. AJF

    AJF FHF Legend

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    PS and probably a YC. I'm thinking 10 minutes too.
     
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  18. BlindGoalie613

    BlindGoalie613 FHF All Time Great

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    This is interesting to me (as a goalie and umpire).
    In this situation, the ruler I've used to interpret the rulebook was:
    a) Intent to play the ball
    b) Whether play was dangerous or not
    c) How far a direction the ball changed direction

    If the goalie slides out and barely hits the ball whilst clearing the player our then they have not shown a), made play dangerous and if they have not had a powerful clear on it then have not impacted the game. First offense is a penalty corner and warning. Second offence is a green card and anything further is a yellow.
    If it was a one on one with no defenders than it's a penalty stroke every day of the week.
     
  19. BlindGoalie613

    BlindGoalie613 FHF All Time Great

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    In this situation, where the player has no spatial awareness and slams into the keeper I've seen penalties for players interfering with the goalkeeper and creating dangerous play. If the goalie has made a clean save/clear and the attacker has slammed into them full pace the attacker should be penalised for creating danger.
     
  20. Frank183

    Frank183 FHF Top Player

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    Yes. I've seen it to cause a heavy concussion for the gk. Myself I've been hit in the head by an attackers foot in the head and this is really no fun. The helmet is a very good protection from balls and sticks but not so much from the impact of a 90kg guy running at full speed.
     

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