first shot at goal. PC

Discussion in 'Danger, Shots on Goal, Hits & Deflections' started by foozbear, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    I'm sure that is perfectly obvious and the situation will be identically treated by umpires around the world. :yes:

    Where did the bit about the ball not not having left the circle creep in? foozbear says in OP: I have called both this weekend as no goal..16...due to the ball not crossing at the backboard height. but there is only one incident quoted.
     
  2. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Where someone noticed that there were two Rules involving "goal not scored" rather than "must not". We seemed to be penalising the OP situation with FHD, and the other with play on. It turns out the reasons are, as you say, perfectly obvious.
     
  3. sanabas

    sanabas FHF All Time Great

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    Yeah, the 'for a goal to be scored' wording appeared, which got me sidetracked on to what to do when the ball hasn't yet left the circle, and off we went. The OP is definitely a FHD.


    Except....

    If the ball hasn't yet left the circle, then whatever happens can't be called a shot at goal, and so can't be penalised on height, and needs to be treated solely on danger. Doesn't it? i.e. a 'shot' that's just over backboard height, that the postie reaches for and deflects in should result in a long corner, because it's not dangerous, and it can't be the first shot since the ball hasn't come out yet. So there's no offence, the ball simply went over the baseline, last touched by the defence.

    Once we do have a shot at goal, for the three you posted, I'd call all 3 FHD. The first one is a FHD for a high shot before it ever makes it over the backline.
     
  4. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    sanabas.

    If a ball cannot be treated as a shot on goal due to it NOT leaving the circle...ANY shot over knee height can and often does get called as danger. The circle is a small space and as such as far too many people milling around for a ball flung high to not be dangerous.

    reading through the new rules it has clarified my arguments more that any shot at goal has to be judged on danger but I know that at a higher level they let that stuff go. so I am not going to argue on that point.

    the idea we have two players in the goal...a number 1 runner and a offset runner. any 4 of those could be in flight of the ball. if it hasnt been ejected out of the circle...
    the rule of a shot cannot be lifted intentionally unless its a shot at goal is not able to be used.



    as for those still looking at my OP.

    one example was given where they shot from outside the D. BOTH PC's had the ball travel outside the circle....both went to the injector that sweep hit the ball high into the goal. the only difference was one was hit in from outside the circle.

    my question was...if a player is hanging about two metres off the outside of the right goal post.....can that really be called a first shot? if its not then I thnk we have established that a sweep hit is a hit. It has defined the hit and push in the new rules.
     
  5. sanabas

    sanabas FHF All Time Great

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    Yeah, it's often called for danger. But it's not automatically dangerous just because it's 6 inches above the backboard. And if it's not dangerous, that's where the confusion enters.

    I was never confused about what to do when the ball did come outside.

    I was slightly mistaken about how I called it when the ball didn't come outside, and subsequently stayed on the ground/is flicked. I've now got that mistake cleared up, and have that situation sorted.

    I remain confused about how to interpret things when it hasn't left the circle, and the ball is hit above backboard height. Can I call FHD for height, even though the hit couldn't result in a goal? Can I not call FHD for height as it's not a shot, which means the high ball can be pinged for danger, or I can allow play to continue?

    That's the only bit I want to clarify, I know if the ball hasn't left the circle yet, there can't be a goal scored. But if the ball hasn't left the circle yet, can there still be a shot on goal?
     
  6. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    yes a shot on goal can be made....but it will always end in either a 16 yard hit OR a long corner.

    A goal cannot be scored....so normally I would blow the whistle once it crosses a line. NOT as the shot was taken as was the case a few years back.

    The only reason I would call it dead earlier is for danger.

    lets take an example...

    the ball comes through players...a defender raises his stick above his shoulder... It cant be a shot at goal so the defender is being penalised.

    I guess the big question is....if a goal CAN NOT be scored...can it be called a shot at goal.
    (I see what your saying now)
     

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