Rules Changes FIH Rules of Hockey app

Discussion in 'Outdoor Umpiring Questions & General Chat' started by StijnDP, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. UmpireHockey.com

    UmpireHockey.com FHF All Time Great

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    I don't think that stokes fires, I think that highlights the issue. Juggle (wash hands) or, well, bully?
     
  2. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    No. If you move your hands "alternately up and down", one goes up while the other goes down. That's what alternately means. The fact that you have to add the word "both" to create a possible alternative meaning proves that that is not what is meant by the words *written in the rule book*.

    And that's my last word in this ridiculous discussion.
     
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  3. CH.ump

    CH.ump FHF Top Player

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    define lower end ?
     
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  4. MuppetUmp

    MuppetUmp FHF Legend

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    Surely the lower end is the arse rather than the elbow?
     
  5. CardWaver

    CardWaver FHF Reserve Player

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    I can normally detect the lower end as its what most players talk out of when pontificating about rules they believe exist.... 'Mine' !
     
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  6. SPetitt

    SPetitt FHF All Time Great

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    Some lower end umpires do not have a sufficient understanding of the rules and their current interpretations, and some players, at all levels, are the same.
    Most umpires give up their time willingly for the benefit of the players, but a tiny minority are on some kind of ego trip :(
    Not many players think that all umpires are idiots ... but too many do.

    The word 'alternately' could the interpreted as applying to the movement of the hands separately, or both together ..... the latter mimics more accurately the motion of bullying, but I have never, ever seen an umpire signal this way, nor seen players misunderstand the former as an instruction either to juggle or to wash their hands :rolleyes:

    But the response to the seeking of clarification reminded me of pub quiz-masters who have taken the questions straight off the Internet, and respond to such requests with a word-for-word repeat of the original question (but louder) ... typical of English-only speakers speaking to 'foreigners' :p
     
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  7. UmpireHockey.com

    UmpireHockey.com FHF All Time Great

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    "4.2 Bully: move hands alternately up and down in front of the body with palms facing each other."

    Palms facing each other...I wonder why that's added. With the hands like that, they are similar to the position of sticks during a bully -- y'know, flat sides of the sticks facing each other. So tempting to do that and to touch the hands at the top of the alternating up-and-down action that so perfectly mimics a bully. No one would question what to do next. Rather than, for example, having the umpire mimic a juggling action. Fans might expect that something a little extra entertaining is about to happen...
    upload_2017-4-2_19-4-39.png
    Of course, it wouldn't be beyond the FIH to come up with (or continue with) a signal that is near opposite of what is next. Such as pointing to the corner to signal that the ball should be put on the 23-meter line. There are certainly "opportunities" in the "broken windmill" signal that has replaced the corner signal. I love the "this way, no that way" part of drawing the imaginary line.
     
    #27 UmpireHockey.com, Apr 3, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
  8. John Lee

    John Lee FHF Newbie

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    Has anyone tried the new rules app the FIH has 'released' for mobile phones. It sounds like a reasonable idea but I also think if your umpiring the last thing you need is some plonker racing up to you at half time waving a mobile phone in your face. Can you send a player off for excessive data usage?
     
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  9. SportBilly44

    SportBilly44 FHF Top Player

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    Umpires are generally advised to never get into conversations with players with rule books during a game, so the app issue should not affect that. If you want something to support conversations in the bar afterwards (or perhaps even encourage players to learn the rules!) then it is a pretty good tool and saves you from having to carry a rule book around with you.

    Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk
     
  10. scmods

    scmods FHF Starter

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    Is it just my memory or did the rule book used to say "make a 'bully' movement" for the description of the signal? Most useful!

    In any case, you will only ever have a bully to restart after play has been completely halted for some reason, so every one I've ever seen has been communicated verbally "we're going to have a bully to restart" rather than using the signal anyway.

    While I'm rambling, my son (15) was umpiring 10-11 year olds on Saturday and had to do a bully. With that age group never mind the signal, he had to explain to them what it was and how to do it! One kid had heard of it through school and insisted that you have to tap sticks three times (presumably while chanting "hockey one hockey two hockey three"), not just once. In the end my son said it was easier just to let them do three and move on.
     
  11. The_Sheriff

    The_Sheriff FHF Newbie

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    Three taps is the old rule. It was changed a few years ago. No harm, no foul
     
  12. scmods

    scmods FHF Starter

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    I know, he just found it easier in the end to let them do three than to keep trying to explain it.
     
  13. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Welcome (belatedly) to the Umpiring Corner, @scmods and @The_Sheriff. I know you've both posted before, but it's good to see fresh ideas.

    One of the benefits of paper rule books is that one can build up a library of past issues, and confirm that the change, from 3 taps to 1, came in with the total rewrite for 2004 - a few years before those 10-11 year-olds were born. Of course, hockey ideas do have an unnatural persistence: we still understand "16", almost 20 years after the rules went metric in 1998. And we still hear "short" and "long", when for half a century at least the Penalty Corner has been a Penalty Corner and the Corner has been a Corner - were corners ever short and long in the rules?

    That said, I now see (contrary to previous posts) how the FIH app is an important advance: putting the rules at the fingertips of those who probably ought to have seen a rule book, but never have: those certain players, most team captains, rather a lot of coaches, and even occasional umpires.
     
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  14. scmods

    scmods FHF Starter

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    The three taps thing still persists with primary school kids who maybe do one lesson where they play hockey, and are being led by a PE teacher whose knowledge of the game comes mainly from their own vague recollection of the hockey lesson in their own school days...

    I have fuzzy memories from my own very early days of hockey (when we still started and re-started with a bully, the stick was never allowed above the shoulder in any circumstances and a sideline ball was only allowed to be pushed back in to play, not hit) of long corners being taken in the same manner as the short corner - with all the attackers outside the circle and the (six) defenders behind the goal line, but the ball injected from the baseline five metres (yards preseumably?) from the sideline. When did that change? 1983?

    I've always made a habit of reading the full rule book at the start of each season, to pick up anything new and refresh on the old, but I am finding it useful to have the app on hand. I've not used it to settle any arguments yet, but have looked things up while spectating a couple of times, just to confirm that what I was thinking was right.

    While we're talking about old rules, in a game my son played on Sunday the (apparently qualified) Association Umpire awarded the old "bring the free hit forward ten metres" penalty - I know it's been a few years at least, but when exactly did that rule get taken out?
     
  15. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    That's quite a recent one: disappeared from the 2015 Rule Book.

    For years the 'advance up to 10' faced growing disapproval. In the end it was only useful at veterans hockey, where it was regarded as disrespectful for a young umpire to card an old chap, and switching on the peer-pressure with an 'up 10' was more effective.
     
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  16. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

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    You can get electronic (PDF) copies of the rules back to 2000 for sure, I wish I could find the pile of old rule books I had, fairly sure they had paper copies into the 60s
     

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