England Hockey: proposed national league restructuring

Discussion in 'England Hockey' started by Willowsacorns, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Those numbers aren't far from my earlier post, which was also from the national (England) perspective:
    In the decade before 2013 course numbers were 2000 to 2200 per year, and from my contacts with EH at the time, assessments also consistent around 700 to 800 per year - almost 40%, not 20%. Whatever... there was a hole in the umpire pipeline. Maybe it spilled just 1000 to 2000 potential umpires, and 3000 to 4000 was exaggerating.

    Back on topic: I guess it's going to happen. Maybe I'll be drawn into it: participating at a notionally higher level, but with the same teams, playing much the same standards of hockey. As for paying gate money and TV subs to be 'entertained', I'm not a fan. That's all.
     
    #41 Diligent, Aug 27, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
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  2. wcbc123

    wcbc123 FHF Regular Player

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    Will actually if you read the proposal in full, yes. (On the condition, of course, your club makes a good go of it)

    "robustly run clubs with paid employees ensuring consistent progress" [page 3]
     
  3. Ravennghorde

    Ravennghorde FHF All Time Great

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    Wouldn't do it as a paid job. It's a HOBBY.

    Feel sorry for the hundreds of clubs that will be excluded. Dream of reaching conference or prem? We don't want you, you're not the 'right' kind of club.

    Never been a fan of the super club idea.


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  4. DLW

    DLW FHF Newbie

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    I don't like the idea that EH mandates the 'type' of club either, but surely, this is a protection against a possible future scenario where people with deep pockets create single sex professional clubs, with no commitment to juniors etc., and buying in its players from 'normal' clubs that produced them with hard work. And while you can argue that SOME of that is already happening, we don't have this type of 'breakaway' club yet. On balance, it seems a good opportunity for EH to put its foot down on behalf of good clubs, to make sure this doesn't happen.
     
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  5. Jay Be Are

    Jay Be Are FHF Starter

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    Ultra confusing. No idea when leagues would be finalised at the end of the season, half season, pre-playoffs?
    Player movement encouraged, not good for clubs that rely on regular home grown 16/17 year olds 9before losing them to to Uni), more talented youngsters encouraged to go elsewhere, making current National League clubs in a position to get stronger weakening local competition.
    What happens to a club like Durham Uni? What if they can't enter an U14 Boys side to an EHB competition? Not allowed in Top 24 (which they would be). Do they merge with a local club...who currently are about Durham Uni 4th team level?
    This is a bit of a strange one!
     
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  6. Craggsy

    Craggsy Beikou Hockey founder
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    No idea what will happen but the irony is that Durham uni do a lot of work with local juniors and players already. Forcing clubs to merge to fit a criteria simply makes no sense at all. Same goes for join gender clubs, as long as there are other clubs in the area offering hockey to the other gender then why must they be joint?

    It would make more sense if they put out some guidelines saying how they would like clubs to be i.e strong junior sections, mixed gender, promoting young talent etc. Enforcing it on clubs is just going to cause problems, and thats before you get to the actual league format. Looking at clubs with 18 year olds or uni teams with final year players, they compete in stage 1 of the league then leave (to uni or in to the real world) and the team is completely different in the finals stage vs the first part of the season.
     
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  7. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    The consultation smacks of a veneer of process over a fait accompi: circulated mainly among those set to benefit. What about market research: any attempt to get a handle on whether those who will pay for all this professionalism are actually inclined to shell out.
     
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  8. freebird

    freebird FHF All Time Great

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    Would love to do my L2, but the hoops you have to jump through in the North put me off. Seems you either play/coach or umpire.
     
  9. MKochar

    MKochar FHF Legend

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    I shall be writing a small article for WHN on the restructure - and its interesting to see people's take on it in here.
    Most helpful.
     
  10. Trig

    Trig FHF Legend

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    Hi Mani, do you know the publication date? I'd be very interested in your take on it.

    Cheers


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  11. MKochar

    MKochar FHF Legend

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    It'll be towards the end of October.
    I just hope @ironman doesnt think its too out of touch....you know! :rolleyes:
     
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  12. Ravennghorde

    Ravennghorde FHF All Time Great

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  13. sord89

    sord89 FHF Star Player

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    That statement was probably written before the consultation started.

    We can't get people engaged with and turn up to our current finals, what should we do?

    I know, let's play a best v best competition late in the year when it's freezing cold! That'll put attendance figures up!!!

    *pat each other on the back*
     
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  14. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

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    Broad support is marketing idiotspeak for "people are incensed but all agreed the spelling was correct and we are straight from uni and totally unable to handle dissgreement and criticism so we will latch onto that as the only positive and ignore all other things."

    Also known as the Lt George method: Melchett: "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
     
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  15. Jon Rew

    Jon Rew FHF Top Player

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    Have EH considered the prospect that if they hack off enough small to mid sized hockey clubs that someone might float the idea of a non EH Hockey product, further diluting and splitting the already limited resources we have as a sport.

    I get that they want to make a bigger better product to attract more spectators and revenue, and hopefully more players (although I'm not sure more players is actually an aim of theirs, I am just surmising) but by adding in eligibility and gender inclusivity caveats they are making it harder to achieve and more exclusive , and where I come from 'exclusive' means less of, not more of.

    Why not focus on getting kids to play hockey instead of something else, and then stay with hockey beyond school? Work on creating better hockey skills coaching at schools, linking schools and clubs, stuff like that. In order to get bigger better clubs, you need more p[people playing hockey, and then teaching them to play better hockey, which will lead to better quality matches at all levels, not just a 24 club elite level.

    Anyway, just my thoughts.
     
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  16. G

    G FHF All Time Great

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    This is a key aim of their as outlined in their briefings in Summer 2016 - increase playing numbers from ~100k -> 200k

    As a county we identified that as well as getting people Back2Hockey we need to be encouraging schools to pick it up. There are, of course, the added costs of finding sticks etc. rather than just a few footballs so it is seen as more costly to do. However, we also identified that sport and PE in general is suffering in schools anyway. Added pressures of national curriculum, school league tables, new Maths and English exams etc. mean that subjects like non-academic PE (i.e. those kids not actually studying for PE qualifications) are being dropped. (I remember doing PE of some description every day at school, right up to A-Levels and I didn't do PE academically! My youngest son, currently in lower 6th, hasn't done any proper timetabled PE at school for 3 years)

    The question is, ultimately, how do sports governing bodies, or the government, ensure that PE in general is taken seriously and schools forced to keep it up.

    Once kids are playing sport in school regularly, then, we can at least try and get them playing hockey.

    A bit of a catch 22 situation, but what's the point of forging school/club links and getting Level 2 qualified coaches ready to coach in schools only for there to be no slots for PE available...
     
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  17. Craggsy

    Craggsy Beikou Hockey founder
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    I've been trying to set up a link between the two universities here and local schools so the students coach the kids hockey. Zero interest from EHB in helping, its going to happen would just be nice to have some support from the body responsible for growing the sport.
     
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  18. SportBilly44

    SportBilly44 FHF Top Player

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    When you say zero interest, who exactly have you contacted? The Universities' Hockey Manager? The Participation team?

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  19. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Not mere 'spectators': the word they use is 'fans'. The distinction, I think, is between those who will stay around and watch the game, because they are around the club already, and those who will take the time, trouble and, of course, expense to watch a specific contest - ideally most or all of the contests that involve 'my' team.

    I suspect that the hullabaloo around ticket sales for summer internationals has given EH the idea there is an un-tapped market for the same in the domestic game. Problem in the winter season is that almost everyone interested in hockey has to choose between participating and watching, because at the time of the big match, most players are either playing, warming-up, showering and being hospitable, or on the road to their away fixture. A 'player' might be an occasional spectator, but becoming a 'fan' tends to mean 'not a player'.

    This is the tension between new and exciting elite competitions (closing the gap, growing the fan-base), and the dull hard work of grass-roots development (growing participation, challenge, enjoyment, commitment, contribution, etc...).
     
    #59 Diligent, Oct 14, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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