EHL change points structure

Discussion in 'EHL' started by Ravennghorde, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Ravennghorde

    Ravennghorde FHF All Time Great

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    Just had an email explaining the new scoring for EHL.

    The Euro Hockey League The Euro Hockey League will trial a new points system for the upcoming season among a number of new innovations for the 2017/18 season.

    The new points system will follow along the same lines at the Hockey India League with field goals and a penalty stroke goal that did not result from a penalty corner earning two points.
    Every penalty corner and every goal from a penalty stroke that came about from a penalty corner will earn one point.

    The new scoring system
    * For every Field Goal and a Penalty Stroke Goal scored in a match NOT resulting from a Penalty Corner = 2 Points
    * For every Penalty Corner scored in a match = 1 Point
    * For every goal scored from a Penalty Stroke resulting from a Penalty Corner situation = 1 Point
    * In a shoot-out competition a goal from a direct Shoot-out and a Penalty Stroke = 1 Point

    2nd match at KO16
    In the second change to the EHL format, the losers of the eight KO16 matches will also play a second match (EHL ranking matches) in the same Easter weekend to determine which teams will be ranked joint ninth and joint 13th in the EHL.

    All teams will therefore play two matches over the Easter weekend in Rotterdam with teams playing either on Friday and Sunday or on Saturday and Monday. In these four EHL ranking matches, there will be no video umpire.

    Video umpire
    During the matches where a Video Umpire is available (KO16 onwards), teams will have one video referral per match as per the FIH Regulations. During any shoot-out series, however, no Video Referral will be available.

    This means team and umpires may not ask the video umpire for a decision during any shoot-out series as there are three on-pitch umpires who can make a joint decision.

    These three regulations apply only to EHL and will be implemented on a pilot basis for the 2017/18 season. The FIH has approved the changes and the EHL regulations will be updated in the upcoming weeks.

    The first time these rules will come into force will be at the EHL ROUND1 in Barcelona from October 6-8, 2017 at the Pau Negre Stadium.
     
  2. The.Rampage.Rado

    The.Rampage.Rado FHF All Time Great

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    I just saw it in my FB feed. Not good news for our sport at all... :((((

    I'm sorry but I don't get the big picture here... Is it mandatory to have rule changes every year in order to make the sport FANCIER?! They try to save money from video umpire expenses but in the meantime they introduce more matches for the loosers. Why? If the Rotterdam venue is expensive just take those loosing teams to play in France. I bet they will be more than happy to have such high level international venue there. Or take them to Switzerland or Austria or even Poland.
     
  3. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    @The.Rampage.Rado I'm not sure why you think this has anything to do with saving costs? There were no VUs in EHL Round 1 last year either...

    Screen Shot 2017-09-12 at 18.17.46.png
     
  4. Craggsy

    Craggsy Beikou Hockey founder
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    Dont mind the change to points scoring its worth a trial to see how it impacts the game in a european club setting. Also more matches makes sense as everyone gets to play two games over the weekend and means 4 games on everyday at KO16. Dont get the removal of the video umpire in the shootouts cant see a reason if the video umpire is already there doing the game.
     
  5. jonberg

    jonberg FHF Top Player

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    This rule was bound to be introduced after the trial at the IHL went pretty well. Probably in a year or two it will be introduced worldwide so teams should start preparing for it.
     
  6. FastForward24

    FastForward24 FHF All Time Great

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    Extra game for loosing teams at KO16 makes perfect sense.

    I'm with Craggsy on the Video Umpire issue - why remove VU for shootouts if they're there for the game? (ignoring round 1 here). Is the aim to speed up the shootouts? There has been some big delays for referrals in shootouts in the past, so can only imagine this is why.

    Not a big fan of the points system. If the aim here is to reduce short corners I don't think this is the way to do it. I'd prefer to see an adaptation of short corners - similar to the system they trialled in the International 9s in Australia a few years back

    (example video here:
    ).

    That way, rather than short corners being how hard someone can drag flick, it turns them into more of a show of passing, skill and finishing ability.
     
  7. jamesev

    jamesev FHF Top Player

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    We already have a mix of games times 4x15, 2x35,4x17.5 for TV benefit. I'm all for promoting the sport via TV but not when the TV dictates the rules.

    Football doesn't apart from the Mexico World cup when drinks breaks were a safety thing
     
  8. Skills Pay Bills

    Skills Pay Bills FHF Newbie

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    What do people think about the scoring system? I feel like at an senior level it isn't much of a problem. It's like getting a try in rugby instead of a kick, if you put more effort in you should be rewarded more, but I'm not saying that a penalty corner means your not putting effort in I'm saying that most flickers are consistent and so it makes it boring to watch, if its 3-2 and the team down is going on a run in attack then it becomes more intense and lively, you realise that your team may have a chance at winning. While if the teams are only aiming for corners to get ahead it becomes the same thing over and over again. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing those scoring rules implemented, that's my 2 cents.
     
  9. Badger666

    Badger666 FHF Top Player

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    For me it should help avoid people simply looking for PCs in the D instead of trying to score. I see this even at my level (London div 6).
     
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  10. Howard

    Howard FHF Star Player

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    Mod edit: from this point until Rado's post at #22 below, the posts have been merged from another thread that @Howard started on the chit chat page. They've been merged for obvious reasons.

    -o-o-


    [EHL are now having Two points for open-play goal,] One for short corners. Seems they are going down the IPL route. As this is a tournament I follow closely it will be interesting to read people's feelings/experience on this. Particularly whether any play changes as a result - eg shorts being played well outside the D to try for the two points, players accidentally deliberately fouling in the D so as to give away a short (and not flick or 2-point goal) late on in games.

    Wonder if there are any stats out there that show the % of shorts scored in the EHL compared to open play/flicks and if an open play goal is really worth double that of a short?
     
    #10 Howard, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2017
  11. bigdave1981

    bigdave1981 FHF Regular Player

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    just messing with the game.... next it will be 5 points for 10 passed completed... or 100 points for a nutmeg lol...
    stick to a goal is a goal.... end of
     
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  12. Howard

    Howard FHF Star Player

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    Agree. If a short becomes devalued, I have read a suggestion where shorts become played from the 23 (as long corners) and proper corners return for balls over the line. Think that's a bit extreme and would deprive us of goals from shorts - but to go to the one-and-two system is over the top too. I don't think enough goals are scored from PC's to justify the change. If you have something that generally works, leave well alone!

    If it were April 1st I'd suggest a team should announce a 5-min "powerplay" where any goals scored are worth double. However it's not April 1st so I won't.
     
  13. Ravennghorde

    Ravennghorde FHF All Time Great

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    Personally I feel changing the scoring is the wrong solution. The PC needs fixing. It's too big a penalty for an 'accidental' foul which is in fact a deliberate play by the attack and leads to too many 'cheap' goals and leads to boring play. Umpired a U16 match this week and awarded 15 PCs in the second half. We were all fed up with it.


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  14. Skills Pay Bills

    Skills Pay Bills FHF Newbie

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    That's a nice idea, would you say that changing the way a short corner is called should be judged by whether or not the umpire finds it to be on purpose from the defender? Or would you decide that only certain fouls lead to a short corner? I agree completely with what you say about too many short corners being called and that it becomes boring, attackers shouldn't use their skills on the whole field except the circle where they push it onto a foot I'd definitely like to see people not trying to find the easy way out.
     
  15. Ravennghorde

    Ravennghorde FHF All Time Great

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    I started umpiring a couple of years before they removed the rule on playing for a foul. I don't know the background to the change but the outcome seems wrong. If the attack play it onto a foot I don't see it as a real disadvantage.


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  16. Howard

    Howard FHF Star Player

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    What, if a deliberate foot foul is a flick, accidental feet becomes a long corner? So ball against body is either a flick or a LC, and other fouls that don't deprive a shooting opportunity are shorts? I don't agree with that (over complicating things) but is it an option to reduce PC's? *NB shots heading at goal which hit a foot are still flicks.
     
  17. Howard

    Howard FHF Star Player

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    I agree with you but it does lead to umpires having to "read" an attackers mind. Sometimes playing the ball deliberately onto a foot is obvious, IMO many times it isn't. At least the rule's clear; I suppose the previous rule is a bit like handball in football - at the official's discretion to a point.
     
  18. MKochar

    MKochar FHF Legend

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    Agree with this, its the PC that needs fixing.
    Mink vD Weerden rolls up for Oranje-Rood and its an almost certainty he'll score. If an opposition are 3 or 2 POINTS up, they'll just allow MvdW to take PCs and still feel safe.
    The game has enough goals, but you need to look at the percentage of those scored by whatever method.

    My suggestion, a drag flick cannot be in contact with the stick inside the D during the execution of the drag-flick.
    That automatically moves the point of release 3 or 4 yds further away. And hopefully makes the PC less one-sided.
     
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  19. Howard

    Howard FHF Star Player

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    That means you can't score directly from a DF? What if the ball is stopped outside, then passed sideways to a drag flicker? Can they take the ball inside the D and flick? Or passed to someone wider or even the injector? I think I understand what you are trying to say; but it seems not to work?

    If a drag-flicks a problem (safety??) then IMO the best way to eliminate it is to only allow a goal if it hits/enters the goal at backboard height, whether it be a flick, slap, push or hit.
     
  20. Mac

    Mac FHF Legend

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    If this is the case, as to which I make no assertions, is the idea (and I'm conscious this may help take the Fred offtopic, for which I apologise) of making the D larger a possible answer?

    If the D was say 18 yards (in old money) then we would see a greater distance between a striker and the goal, and greater reaction time from strikes from the top during PCs. This may see an increase in saves made (although runners have to go further but GKs should balance this). With a bigger D we may also see more opportunity for open play shots. Would this bring balance to the PC/game generally (if it's needed?)
     

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