Drilling and Blind Firing

Discussion in 'Indoor Umpiring Questions' started by Ridge, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. Hockeyfish

    Hockeyfish FHF All Time Great

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    293
    Well I'll keep you posted about when I get to the level where I get briefings from the FIH myself! I think world cup trumps Essex Div 1. I guess what I'm saying is that the FIH message is not just not filtering down, but coaching at some levels is actively contrary to it (though the coaching did come from a National League umpire).

    I was looking out for how drilling was managed at the weekend at the indoor nationals, and playing hard through feet was certainly not blown (nor did the TD seem to show any signs of discomfort about playing on from them ;-D). It was only blown when it was drilled specifically into a stick.
     
  2. keely

    keely FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,403
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    Calgary, Canada
    I think it's particularly challenging to get messages through from international to national level due to many countries' indoor seasons being so short. With more time, more games and more tournaments the umpiring community has a chance to notice discrepancies and work on them. In contrast to somewhere like England, the indoor season in my city is a very long 6 months. Correspondingly, I find our ability to get even our fairly low-level leagues singing from the right hymn sheet to be pretty impressive.
     
  3. CardHappy

    CardHappy FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    780
    Likes Received:
    240
    Location:
    England
    At the highest levels there is very little drilling as the players don't get themselves into the positions where they might do so. I think I saw 2 drills none of them serious at the Indoor Finals. All dealt with by a big whistle and a knowing look.

    Lower down is where the problems occur, and to be fair this is partly due to a lack of knowledge as well as lower skill. I have been fortunate enough to have the two world cup UMs as my UMs for the last 3 tournaments. Drilling was being consistently blown and explained by them and is inline with what red has said previously.
     
  4. Ridge

    Ridge FHF Star Player

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    776
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    If you read this ENTIRE thread, you will see in my original post that I point this fact out. What I was originally looking for is "guidance" not a rule.

    Back to last post:

    Indoor is still a relatively new sport to a lot of parts of the world and as such so many people are still learning, players, coaches and umpires alike. It's not shocking that, with such short seasons as a lot of places have, that the consistency isn't there. Give it a few more years for the sport to grow and I am sure/hope that things will change.
     
  5. Ballingdon

    Ballingdon FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    51
    Location:
    London
    Mod note: this and the following two posts have been merged into an existing thread.

    What do you count as drilling?
    Everyone seems to agree that playing the ball hard at a defender who is set with stick close to ground, where the hands are at risk.
    The question arose at a regional indoor session last weekend: does drilling include a push hard at a player who is standing upright with a vertical stick , where the ball may hit the foot of the defender.

    I thought the guidance in England was that drilling would be called if the ball is played between the lines of the hips at a defender set with his stick horizontal at ground level.
     
  6. CardHappy

    CardHappy FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    780
    Likes Received:
    240
    Location:
    England
    Ballingdon, you are correct. Drilling should be called if the ball is played between the lines of the hips at a defender set with his stick horizontal at ground level. The ball must be at pace and probably no more than from 5m away.

    Spin and release is another no no, as it can be very dangerous. Big penalty! If the attacker spins away from the defender and release thats ok, as long as it is not "drilling" see above. If the attacker spins towards the defender and releases.. big penalty. The follow through can seriously injure a defender
     
  7. alex.miles

    alex.miles FHF Star Player

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    91
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Ballingdon....it's right at the top of the page you posted on for cripes sake!

    3-4 posts in:

     
  8. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    4,226
    Likes Received:
    956
    Location:
    Hampshire (South Coast of England)
    To be fair...
    Ballingdon started a new thread, which Red then merged into this old thread.
    Problem was last Sunday the 'lead' umpires in the squad seemed to be calling 'drilling' for occurrences that were not 'drilling', and us oiks weren't sure whether to follow their lead. I know, 'cos I was there.
     
  9. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,678
    Likes Received:
    2,782
    To be even fairer, I merged the threads after Alex had made his post, but then didn't edit his so it made sense. Apologies all round! :)

    And this:

    sounds nothing like drilling to me.
     
  10. ToPpS

    ToPpS FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Durban
    Hi Guys, We had a meeting and this topic came up. A lot of people get side tracked by "was the player set?" and a whole bunch of other things that would otherwise need to be processed in order to decide if it constituted shelling/winging/slamming/drilling. What came out of the meeting was to simplify everything. Look at it in terms of danger only! If a player is low to the ground (as they would be when tackling / channelling) and within playing distance, then you could be fairly certain that any aggressive passing action / spin by the ball carrier would be dangerous. It's not just the speeding ball that is dangerous, the stick is also able to do some damage on the follow through.
     
  11. alex.miles

    alex.miles FHF Star Player

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    91
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Was told this past weekend by a WC2011 umpire that he has been told that even at 3m it's not drilling - it is a maximum of around 1-2m away for it to be considered dangerous (high men's level - WC players involved).
     
  12. ivyleague

    ivyleague FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Hi Alex, i umpired at the IWC 2011 and there wasn't a discussion about 1, 2 or 3 metres - we talked about danger and playing the ball at pace into a flat, set stick. If a free push has been played at pace into a defenders stick that is flat on the ground (free push being 3 metres away) it CAN be considered 'drilling'. there is no 'drilling' rule as such, only dangerous play.

    the 'hip' guideline is not entirely accurate and i wouldn't/don't use it as a guide - if it's dangerous it's a foul, if it's not... play on

    i hope this helps...
     
  13. alex.miles

    alex.miles FHF Star Player

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    91
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Funnily enough that's the exact situation we were discussing. Free push was played right into a player (set, on ground, right between his feet) exactly 3m away at high pace. He said the reason it wasn't a foul was because it was too far apart, not for any of reason.

    He said this was what the Europeans (the German, Dutch, Polish,... umpires) were saying. Didn't mention Kelleher/O'Connor.
     
  14. jayjay

    jayjay FHF Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    190
    like ivy said, you really shouldn't stubbornly try to define this by distance. you would only be cresting problems for yourself, for example where to draw the line (i.e., 3 meters is too far away, how bout 2.80?). and like ivy said, it really is a matter of danger only. if someone slams the ball into someone's stick who's three meters away at a free push, then that can surely be dangerous. (also ask yourself what the player was trying to do playing the ball straight at an opponent..)
     
  15. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,678
    Likes Received:
    2,782
    During the 2nd weekend of the English Men's Prem Indoor this year, a senior umpire and I were talking about this issue.

    We agreed that the definition of 'drilling' put out by NPUA was maybe a little too specific and was leading to the occasional odd decision when, for example, the ball was being played dangerously into a defender's hand but it wasn't being blown as his hand was "outside the line of his hips". It wouldn't be a complete surprise to me if, next season, the NPUA guidance was simplified to reiterate the fact that the rules say "players must not play the ball dangerously". That pretty much seems to do the job for me!
     
  16. ivyleague

    ivyleague FHF Top Player

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    Brisbane
    red - i agree...

    alex.miles - i am happy to chat on PM about the 'who's and why's' but i can promise (and if i look hard enough in my cupboard of cd's - find some clips to download) that if a ball from a free push was played at paced into a defenders set, flat stick it would have been blown for danger. incidentally, since the rule about free pushes having to be 'non direct' in the attacking half i haven't seen too much of that happen.

    cheers
     
  17. ryanpayne

    ryanpayne FHF Starter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    9
  18. Poty

    Poty FHF Regular Player

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    7
    Is it possible in any way to see the briefing from England Hockey?
     
  19. steve

    steve Founder/Owner
    FHF Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,492
    Likes Received:
    468
    Location:
    Malta
    Stick/s:
    Ritual Velocity 95
    that's a post from 2011. Maybe they have changed in the meantime.
     
  20. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
    FHF Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    10,678
    Likes Received:
    2,782
    It has changed. Last season (14/15) there was no specific mention of "drilling" in the briefing for managers. We haven't written this season's yet, but it would surprise me if there was a detailed description of what constitutes drilling. We now ask our umpires to penalise anything that they perceive to be dangerous.
     
    Poty and steve like this.

Share This Page