Drilling and Blind Firing

Discussion in 'Indoor Umpiring Questions' started by Ridge, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    True, but we've got the world cup soon so let's hope that whatever they blow there becomes the normal way of blowing!
     
  2. g9

    g9 FHF Legend

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    Red, agreed that there's a difference in a drill with a dangerous pop off the defender's stick and simply playing the ball at a defender's stick to manufacture a lift...in the second scenario would you play on recognizing a manufactured foul? If against the attacker for playing it into the defender absent danger, what would the call be (or simply against the defender for the resulting lift?)?
     
  3. CardHappy

    CardHappy FHF Legend

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    In indoor, more so than outdoor. Keeping it simple and blowing the offence is prob the way forward. Also by blowing it you then have time to differentiate between what occured and "drilling". Most times defenders will just want the free from within their own D.
     
  4. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    What he said ^
     
  5. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Several people have commented on the 'attempt to manufacture a lift' by pushing the ball at an opponent's stick.

    But there's no longer a 'manufactured' rule. The introduction to 2011 Indoor Rule Book says:
    "The Rule which used to say that “players must not force an opponent
    into offending unintentionally†is deleted because any action of this
    sort can be dealt with under other Rules."

    So if A pushes the ball at B, hard and at close range: either it is dangerous (seen as drilling) and we penalise A, or the ball stops on B's stick and play continues, or B's stick lifts it (and disadvantages A's team) and we penalise B. Right?
     
  6. g9

    g9 FHF Legend

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    Exactly Diligent! With danger present from a close range, hard drill, the call can obviously be made for dangerous play against the offense. For putting the ball directly at the defender absent danger those do seem to be the options: play on or penalize the defense. If we blow it as you suggest CardHappy (giving time to decide between a drill or not), then we are expecting to turn the ball over to the defense I presume, but under what rule assuming not dangerous play?
     
  7. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    You are, of course, right diligent. The manufactured offence rule has gone.

    However, "drilling" is just one type of danger. You can penalise anything that you consider dangerous under:

    9.8 Players must not play the ball dangerously or in a way which leads to dangerous play.

    Causing the ball to raise in an area where there are a number of players can, very easily, be penalised as "leading to dangerous play". So playing the ball at a stick in an attempt to get it to pop up between players is dangerous whether or not it is actually "drilling".
     
  8. a-dude

    a-dude FHF Starter

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    @Dilligent - Depending on the situation, I would think that you might want kill it even if the D keeps the ball down. The behavior is there, if we allow it because of the situation, how do we then kill it later without have the "inconsistent" moniker applied?
     
  9. ironman

    ironman FHF Top Player

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    Seems to be a bit one dimensional by saying a drill is played to get a lifted ball... a lot of the time somone is just looking for a pass and is a bit late/didn't see the defender had their stick down. I don't like the wording of 'hip line' and it didn't seem to be blown in this way at the super sixes mens prem. It was basically if the guy was set and close enough and it hit the stick/glove it was a drill (which I think all players would agree is fair enough). Hipline seems like silly wording to me as players body can be side on/twisting all the time whilst 'set' and as Nic has demonstrated the majority of times a player has their left hand and stick head outside of their hips
     
  10. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    I can see how hipline can be overly technical, but I think that's why it's a guideline, not a rule - something to assist umpires in understanding the difference between trying to go around and going through a player.

    I think proximity takes care of your other quite valid concern that a player doesn't see the defender when they "drill". If a defender is far enough away that an attacker wouldn't see them, they're also far enough away that a ball dent straight at them wouldn't be dangerous - and therefore isn't drilling.
     
  11. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    I know I was bad on Friday, But by Saturday I had figured it out and called the drill at the player more often.

    Like Ridge says...it was hard to come from Outdoor to trying to pickup Indoor rules and guidances in 2 days.
     
  12. MK

    MK FHF Legend

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    Proximity is almost certainly the deciding factor. 5yds or closer and its 99% drilling, further away and its down to umpire discretion.
     
  13. Polhuil

    Polhuil FHF Starter

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    I always had problems with drilling, but you guys have helped me a lot with this. I feel a lot more comfortable with this aspect of the game. Thanks.
     
  14. Poty

    Poty FHF Regular Player

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    I played this game yesterday when the umpires suddenly started to NOT blow when the ball was being drilled from within 3 metres. I clearly disagreed with them and talked to them after the game, and they told me that
    "if you are more than 3 metres away you have the possibility to act"
    , between the words they said that I had the option lift my stick.
    The funny thing is that I directly asked the umpires
    "so if I stand 3 metres away from the defender I want to go for his hand it's okay, and it's the defenders choice to choose whether his hand should get really heart or not?"
    And the said YES :eek:

    See that's in my world directly crazy, sitting here writing about it actaly makes me angry. :growl: The reason the rule was made is that you under no circumstances should be allowed to drill the ball into another person. Hockey has always been a sport where the rules took care that the players wasn't getting injured, and with these umpires interpretation of the rule they clearly don't go that way.

    I have played in a number of international tournaments, and Germany, and you are penalised every time you try to drill. Even given a yellow card and short corner, it's being seen a very serious foul.

    Just to stop some questions and replies, when I'm talking about drilling it's when the defending striker doesn't have the time to react, and the ball bounces of the stick without the defender is having control of the ball (given that he/she has some technique).

    And some math to round it of with. If you stand 5 metres away from the offending defender and he shoots 60 km/h into you stick you have 1/3 of a second to react, at higher levels how many shoot more than 60 km/h???
     
  15. Poty

    Poty FHF Regular Player

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    Moderator's note: This post and the one following was posted to the '2007-08 Indoor Rules' thread. As Redumpire points out, it is all being discussed here.

    Does anyone know where I can find the rule about drilling? I have tried and couldn't find it.
     
  16. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    There is no specific rule about "drilling". It is covered by the dangerous play rule. You may find this discussion in this section of FHF helpful.
     
  17. Poty

    Poty FHF Regular Player

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    Thank you, but did look there/here and couldn't find anything. But will look at the dangerous play rules.
     
  18. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    If this thread (as hyperlinked by redumpire in the prominent and universally-recognized blue font) isn't helpful in answering your question about "drillIng", there's literally NO HOPE.
     
  19. Hockeyfish

    Hockeyfish FHF All Time Great

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    I was umpiring indoors last week, and we blew for a couple of 'drills'. However, observers felt that we missed a whole load more, which I didn't blow precisely because the defender in each case wasn't 'set'.

    The feedback I got was that it didn't matter if the defender wasn't set, as long as the attacker was playing it directly at or through the defender (even if it's a potentially legitimate pass) at such close quarters that they can't get out of the way, it's blown as dangerous.

    Seems to be at odds with what posters on here are saying.

    Hockeyfish is now confused!
     
  20. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Well, what I - and others - have described is how it was explained to me by, among others, the UM at the forthcoming indoor world cup. If what he says isn't how the FIH want it blowing then I'm the confused one...
     

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