Colour blindness and ball selection

Discussion in 'Resources, Equipment, Signals' started by Spunko, Sep 16, 2008.

  1. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    I'd repeat, the rule is : the ball shall be white unless otherwise agreed.

    NO agreement- white ball must be used. - a Good rule

    It is important that there is a hard and fast fall back position.
    How would you like to adjudicate the debate between two captains at the start of every match ?

    and two umpires with different preferences !!! :eek:

    The captains have a choice- agree a colour - white or otherwise, or one of them can decline to play.

    His only " valid" reason is that he considers it unsafe to play even with a white ball.

    Don't think that argument would be acceptable in normal daylight.

    Under lights, I'd presume that the association has accepted that the ground has adequate lighting, so that would hardly stand up.

    Real difficulty is if some lights are out- a not uncommon occurrence- then there is room for " opinion" .- or if it is a dark day.
    Called " bad light stopped play"
    Light meters, anyone? :rolleyes:


    Umpire can't see ball - change umpire if possible.

    No other umpire? Abandon match? Agree it is unsafe to play?

    The important bit is that the ball MUST be white unless otherwise agreed - a standard.
     
  2. Grumpy

    Grumpy FHF Legend

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    I have in the past have had players playing under flood lights who could not see the white ball and some who could not see the orange. We decided to pick the players that could see the a white ball only.
    It meant not selecting the no 1 gk.

    But we had a problem when the opposition had players that could not see the white ball.
    Loud discussion and match not played.
    The rule i can see is stated by deegum, so that is what we should follow.
     
  3. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    If the umpires judge the lighting to be adequate then a white ball should be used unless AGREED otherwise..in the absence of agreement, IMO it's white or forfeit the game.
     
  4. Grumpy

    Grumpy FHF Legend

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    Actually lighting is not the issue the lights we have to play under of a very high standard, insurance and all that.
    Not sure what will happen no matter what the rule says, we shall see.
    I hate night matches so i am happy if they are cancelled and played over a weekend.
     
  5. Snoody

    Snoody FHF All Time Great

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    Talking of insurance, anyone know what the minimum lux (or other light level measurement) is needed for a match / training to be deemed safe under floodlights?
    Does it vary between associations/nations?
     
  6. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Snoody, extracted from the FIH document Guide to the Artificial Lighting of Hockey Pitches, which is available from the Facilities Guidance page on the EH website (see the links and documents menu on the right-hand side):

    * Their words not mine, for the avoidance of doubt!
     
  7. Snoody

    Snoody FHF All Time Great

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    Appreciate that, Red. Cheers.
     
  8. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    what brand and model light meter do you use red? :p
     
  9. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    It's never yet been an issue for me deegum...!
     
  10. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    Lever Bros, I'd guess, deegum..they invented Lux, didn't they?
     
  11. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    Lux makes clothes brighter. but hockey fields?
     
  12. RushMan

    RushMan FHF All Time Great

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    How can someone claim colour blindness when the only time I suggest using an orange ball is when the ground is sandy/white (under lights some sand based grounds appear white) ?

    Is there an Orange/White colour blindness ?

    Whatever the colour of the pitch appears to be, the ball should be of a contrasting colour.
     
  13. Neo

    Neo Technical Moderator

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    Your eyes are not deceiving you... High intensity lighting is often either tungsten {3200ºK} or sodium vapor - both have a low colour temperature, meaning that they have more warm colours in the mix of white light, so if the light is orange and the ball is orange, it will appear a similar "whitish" to the sand.
    Where as in daylight {5500ºK - 10,000ºK} (which is blueish by comparison) the extra blue reflected off the sand will make the sand stand out from the orange ball (& vice-versa), so that's why its easier to see in daylight.

    In fact, a flourescent lime-green ball may be the best colour for playing on sand dressed pitches under artificial light. Must grab one and try it, {trying to remember if I have ever seen a lime-green ball} - I think, most are pink / yellow / orange because it is assumed that the pitches are {darkish} green.

    Snoody, if necessary, get a spray can of lime green flourescent paint and try it - might just do the trick on sand-dressed pitches at night ;)

    and for reference -->> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature
     
  14. Snoody

    Snoody FHF All Time Great

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    Appreciate that info - have a rep point :yes:
     
  15. johnreiss

    johnreiss FHF Top Player

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    I wwuld have thought this is a safety issue. If an umpire refused to change a ball having been told that someone is colour blind and he or someone else is injured because of it, I would have thought that the ump could be sued.
     
  16. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Has anybody said they'd refuse to let a particular colour ball be used john?

    I'm with deegum on this: it's white or another colour that the captains agree on; if they can't agree then it's white, as per the rules; if one team refuses to play with a white ball then they forfeit the game. Hopefully it would never come to this.
     
  17. Gilly

    Gilly FHF Legend

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    I couldn't agree more!
    I couldn't agree less - no-one is forcing anyone to play and if there is any liability I would have thought it rested firmly with the idiot that chooses to play a game when they can't see the ball not the umpire who is merely following the rules.
     
  18. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    Have to agree with Gilly!

    if you've got problems seeing a hockey ball then maybe hockey isn't the sport for you...

    You can't sue an umpire for allowing you to play when you've said you can't see the ball... you say you can't see it, you don't take to the field. People have to take some liability for their own risk.
    Hockey's a dangerous sport and when you step on the field you accept all the risks. Otherwise we'll have people suing the umpire because they didn't stop play when it hit someones foot moments before someone else got hurt...
    Ridiculous concept.
     
  19. alex.

    alex. FHF Legend

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    I think John was saying that if everyone is happy to play with a different coloured ball to accomodate the colour-blind person, and the ump refuses, that could be negligent. I can't see that ever happening though, frankly.
     
  20. Snoody

    Snoody FHF All Time Great

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    P, I can see any ball fine until the lights come on and then orange starts getting bleedin' hard to see. :eek:
    When the rules call/allow for a white ball, I get a bit hacked off when other players / umpires at our pitch start saying I'm full of bull and should just get on and play with an orange ball.
    Especially as our pitch is heavily sanded with probably the wrong type of sand (coarse, gritty, builders' stuff), and we're not allowed to play with full power floodlights "because of the cost"...
    This week I saw a defender helped off the pitch with a duck-egg bulge on his forehead after being smacked, and more than one player was saying stuff along the lines of: "not really surprised; bit dark out here, innit." That worries me. What I don't want over here is for there to have to be a serious injury before something positive gets done.

    I know of no one over here who has problems spotting any type of balls in daylight, but when the lights come on, it's a different matter. To me, that says the influencing factor is the lights.
     

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