Centre Pass infringements Q?

Discussion in 'Field Play outside the "D"' started by Neo, Aug 1, 2007.

  1. PabloCasino

    PabloCasino FHF Starter

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    I noticed this yesterday as well. It was quite Bizzarre.

    There were too Dutch players at every Centre Pass at least 2 meters inside the opposition half. They looked braced to chase the ball as soon as it was played but they never did.

    I just couldn't understand it. It was clearly a ploy they had worked on because it was always the two inside forwards who ever was playing in that position (so not just a habit of one or two players). It wasn't that they had strayed slightly over the line, it wasn't that they broke early, they deliberately took up positions roughly 2 meters inside the opposition half.
     
  2. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    That answers it then. They didn't chase the ball, so they didn't gain an advantage. Fair enough?
     
  3. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    Perhaps the purpose was to "passively threaten" ( like that expression? :p ) a particular tactic of the opposition?
    But clearly it was a tactic and therefore an illegal advantage.. worth pulling up BEFORE restarting-if you noticed the repetition.

    How many GOALS????? :eek:
     
  4. PabloCasino

    PabloCasino FHF Starter

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    Thanks, I suppose mine was less of a “how did they get away with it?" question and more of a “why do they do it question?â€

    Whether the umpires thought there was an advantage or not, the Dutch certainly seem to think it gains them an advantage otherwise I'm guessing they wouldn't have it as a team tactic that they employed 9 times in the single game.
     
  5. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    Nothing to stop the oppo from delaying the push-back slightly,if they think they are being disadvantaged, making it clear (but not aggressively so ;) ), to the umps that's why they are waiting.

    Part of good 'player psychology' is trying to get the best from the umpires you have :)
     
  6. bighitter

    bighitter FHF Regular Player

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    I think the advantage they gain is that the person taking the centre has his options cut right down to a deep central back pass. Who would risk anything else? Diagonal or short gets risky, and you're worried the umpire might think "well you chose to put it there". So the Dutch push their opponents back. That's the advantage.
    Look at it the other way. What if attackers advance a few metres into the opposition half. Defender will drop off a bit. That means that the midfielder can move up and take a more lateral pass. Again, advantage to the team moving over the line.
    >:
    Easy enough to stop it. Free hit to the other team. It'll only happen once.
    If you don't stop it, where does it end?
     
  7. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    I see what you're saying, bighitter, but honestly, I don't see a couple of metres being "pushed back" as making any kind of difference at this level. Internationally, generally speaking it's about possession, not territory. Two players "offside" create other spaces that any team at this level can adjust to.

    Anyway, I'll let you know my thoughts if I see it this week, but my educated guess is that this is a bit of much ado about nothing.
     
  8. PabloCasino

    PabloCasino FHF Starter

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    Keely - Of course it's a "much a do about nothing" its an internet, forum that's what we're all here for lol

    Would still be interested in other people's thoughts. The idea that it cuts off passing options is a good thought.
     
  9. nerd_is_the_word

    nerd_is_the_word FHF All Time Great

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    lets face it though how often do you pass straight to the winger off the center pass? it wouldnt cut off your pass the the outside half, unless it was a damn slow pass. i cant really see them doing it for an advantage. maybe its like those people who stand a couple of metres short of the halfway on corners then dont chase back?
     
  10. veronica pimplebottom

    veronica pimplebottom FHF Regular Player

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    It wasnt. Cos the people who dont get to the half way do it more out of laziness (when I;ve seen it), oh or 'positive player psychology' if you're me and playing on our pitch which has 3 mines in the middle - I go to the closest to the goal rather than the 1/2way.... anyway... the offside players definately did it proactively as if it served a purpose.

    Interesting discussion this 'tactic' has provoked... With various ideas.. Just shows how peoples (umpires) perceptions can differ...just like on the pitch :yes: ;)


    true true - in terms of distance, and in terms of which 'level' of player can do it and which cant.
     
  11. veronica pimplebottom

    veronica pimplebottom FHF Regular Player

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    ok - so here's the evidence from the finals (taken from the VIP area by me!)

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    THe 1st one shows a Spanish centre and the 2nd a Dutch centre. On both you can clearly see the 2 widest dutch players offside and the C too close (and over the line on one..)

    Any comments now you've seen the pics?

    Just interested in why they do it? It is clearly a plan (and I know wish I;d;ve asked one of their players who was chatting me up at the post championship party ;) but I was enjoying being chatted up too much... will try to find out though :rolleyes: )
     
  12. bighitter

    bighitter FHF Regular Player

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    It was a good 5m, wasn't it. Maybe they should try for 10m next match. :eek:

    I hadn't realised how small those stands look in comparison to the main stand.
    Still, my England flag looks OK, doesn't it?
     
  13. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    It was a players' 5m , not an umpire's :D
     
  14. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Watching the games in person, it confirmed my impression that it didn't matter one bit that they weren't standing behind the line. No options were cut off, no pressure was being applied, nothing.
     
  15. Thistledown

    Thistledown Guest

    I don't disagree with this, I just think it's "one of those things" that just doesn't look right but hey.
     
  16. veronica pimplebottom

    veronica pimplebottom FHF Regular Player

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    I am interested in WHY they do it? THey CLEARLY do it as a plan. It;s not just that they are lazy and havent got back on side. Plus they are the best team in Europe / World? so MUST do it for a reason. I will endeavour to find out from their player who chatted me up and gave me his number ;) but keep giving ideas on here in the meantime..
     
  17. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    keely, you mightn't have seen a reason for it.
    But the fact that DIFFERENT players when they interchanged to the POSITION indicate that it was a plan.
    not a bad habit by a single player

    And plans have reasons.

    International coaches are clever people as far as hockey tactics are concerned.
    Sometimes the reasons for their Machiavellian tactics aren't apparent to mere umpires like us.
     
  18. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Maybe I should clarify myself. I didn't see a disadvantage accruing to the opposing team and, especially where the Spanish are concerned, you'd expect the opposing team to let you know should you in fact miss that disadvantage (oftentimes when it doesn't even exist).

    Those Machiavellis also experiment with tactics that briefly emerge and then fall out of favour when nothing comes of them.
     
  19. -Pulse

    -Pulse FHF Newbie

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    At the centre pass when play starts again (e.g half time, goal scored) Does the centre forward on the other team have to be 5 metres away? Or can they be close to the line waiting for the other centre forward to bring the ball into play? A teammate confused me by believing that we had to be of a distance away, though the umpires have never corrected me and players on the wing are always next to each other bordering the centre line.
    -Australia-
     
  20. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    The rules are quite clear on this.
     

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