Blowing Time at End of Half - again

Discussion in 'Game Management & Communication' started by Ballingdon, Nov 29, 2008.

  1. Ballingdon

    Ballingdon FHF Top Player

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    Another variation on the old theme. What do others think?

    I am in charge of time at the end of the first half, and my colleague is signalling advantage (to the attack) with play inside the circle. Time expires.
    Should I :
    a) blow time
    b) wait for play to develop for a moment , allowing partner to blow the PC.
    c) blow the PC ( - yep, I know I shouldn't)
    d) something else?

    I chose (a) - strictly according to the rule book . Seemed unfair to the attack at the time - but can't find a justification for anything else. Partner knows that we're (well) inside the last 2 minutes .
     
  2. Magpie

    Magpie Administrator
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    Blow time, that is the right thing to do, even if there is a shot taken.
     
  3. nerd_is_the_word

    nerd_is_the_word FHF All Time Great

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    If you can see that your partner has their hand up for advantage, blow time and give them the chance to blow the corner, if they dont then maybe have a quick word with them and say that time expired after the infringment and they should give the corner
     
  4. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    Can you time a match that accurately? How long does advantage last? 3 seconds? 5?

    And the involved umpire certainly wouldn't play advantage if he thought there wasn't time.! :yes:
    could you penalise a team for your colleague's " bad timekeeping"?
     
  5. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    Surely you can't do that

    Once you've blown time that's it. Game over. The teams are doing three cheers and then walking off. You can't go over to your partner and tell him to award the PC and then restart play.
    You can give the PC and then blow time, not the other way round.
     
  6. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    I think I would wait until my colleague either put his/her hand down or awarded a PC and then blow for time...is there a fairer way?
    As deegum says, advantage in hockey , and especially in the circle, is only going to last a couple of seconds....I cannot envisage any incident beig dragged-out longer.
    Blowing before the advantage is played-out strikes me as being unfair to the offended-against team.
     
  7. nerd_is_the_word

    nerd_is_the_word FHF All Time Great

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    Ok let me put it this way. if time goes, you play advantage for two-three seconds, the attacker puts the ball in the net, is that fair to the defending side? the attacker have not scored in regulation time. If a player from the defending team was near you and saw your watch what would they say? that basically looks like youve just held your whistle long enough for the attackers too score, i would rather put the players out a bit than put myself in that situation

    philthy, if a penalty occurs and before you have time to blow the whistle the hooter goes (assume they have a scoreboard) would you say sorry too bad?

    Of course you can blow a penalty after the whistle, im not saying that you should blow it a minute later, quickly run over to your partner and say the corner was before time, play the corner, should take five seconds.
     
  8. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Blow time. This may not be the best course of action for your colleague to be taking given that time is expiring but b) is against the rules, c) is very poor form and I can't think of a d).
     
  9. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    As one of the the 'arbiters of fair play', I'd blow at the end of my timer's beeping rather than on the very first beep.....hockey just isn't timed to that degree of accuracy, anyway.
     
  10. phrack

    phrack FHF Top Player

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    I agree with this. As a player I have been within earshot of the umpires alarm, heard it go off as a player on opposite team was at top of his swing with a near open goal, ref blew time straight away.

    I would be able to accept that if full time was blown, that the umpire goes back to a penalty corner and it's played out.
     
  11. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    So you heard the alarm. The umpire has to react to that. say .2 seconds plus whistling time plus about .2 for the sound to get to the other end.
    When was time? How long does the swing take? and if the ball is in flight........... :yes:

    I think soccer has a rule/ convention that the whistle not be blown during an attack. ( how attack is defined I don't know- but I'd suggest when there is a possibility of disputation of " before /after."

    (Remembering that there will be, in a stadium, a very significant difference between the times that the groups of fan(atics) at either end of the ground hear the whistle.

    I've adopted this view and never regretted it.

    Don't blow your way into embarrassment.
     
  12. aussieump

    aussieump FHF All Time Great
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    The game is over as Keely points out, blow for time,

    but I do suggest that in your pregame the signals for 2min etc are clearly signalled and acknowledged by your co-ump, it is then up to them to make the call all you can do is play by the rules.

    Me if I know it is in the last two minutes I would be awarding the PC as this is the best advantage for the attacking team. A set play compared to no play
     
  13. phrack

    phrack FHF Top Player

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    If the ball isn't over the line when the alarm/hooter/whistle goes, you didn't score in regulation time. I think hockey is one of the few sports that when time is up, its over.

    As my example had it, the umpiring timing the game, it was in his circle. I heard the alarm go, and the striker was stepping towards the ball probably only half a second from hitting it when the umpire blew his whistle. The guy still hit the ball into the goal but it wasn't counted. If the ref had have kept playing I would have questioned him as I knew time was up before they scored. Depends on the type of swing as to how long it takes, like when the ball is coming towards you and you go to one time hit it, you generally do your backswing and hold it until the time is right which could be 2 seconds from the time you start.

    At my last tournament they had a hooter, as soon as that went it was game over. The way I'd see it is advantage was being played, regulation time ended so then there was no advantage so the PC would get played. If you blew the whistle and told the surrounding players (chances are being that time of the game and that situation a good proportion of the players would be around) that the PC still has to be played because the offense occured during regulation time.

    But I don't know the rules entirely, but that's how I'd handle the situation. Unless it's actually a rule then I'd need to change.
     
  14. controller

    controller FHF Legend

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    Blow the whistle and that is the end of the game. FULL STOP!

    Trying to work out timings of how long it takes a stick to come down hit the ball and for the ball to move is plain stupid.

    Also, never have the alarm on your watch on, as if you do want to play an advantage then you have lost that opportunity as the other players can hear it.
     
  15. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Last year in a national league match, the game was tied at 3-3. As I checked my watch, I had awarded a (long) corner with 15 sec. left. As the ball was crossed hard towards the top of the circle, it struck a defender's foot outside, and then struck another defender's foot inside the circle, looping up fairy gently about mid-thigh height and dropping right at the feet of an attacker in clear space. She one-timed it beautifully, cranking the ball into the top corner, winning the game. As my whistle ended calling the goal, my colleague blew for time.

    The best advantage for the attacking team is the best opportunity to score a goal, and sometimes you have to make the courageous decision.
     
  16. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    I agree with Keely and controller - when time is up during play, the whistle must go.

    However, if goal or PC is awarded in the final seconds, then it nothing is lost by leaving the whistle for several seconds until they are well into lining up, but not actually ready.

    And I agree with the watch ending time silently. That said, I do start a timer counting down from 35 minutes as they line up for the start, then use the count-up stopwatch from the first whistle onwards. With stoppages the beeper goes a minute or two before time and alerts me to check the stopwatch more often. More importantly, it offers a backup for the occasional finger trouble with the stopwatch.
     
  17. johnreiss

    johnreiss FHF Top Player

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    Just thought I'd add my 2p's worth. I am not convinced that the time taken to thionk about the pc, then decide to give iit and finally blow the whistke to give the decision is realevant . The 2 mins signal means that there is approx 2 mins left and if it happens to be a 2 min 10 sec or whatever) so what.

    If my colleague is signalling advantage to the attack, why not give him the opportunity to give what he feels is the better option. or the deciaon that benefits the offender the least. In other words don't blow for time (the playuers will not know In this instance that the 35 mins is techgnically completed and your colleague can then choose to give the pc or the advantage.

    The 2 min signal merely tells the players and your colleague that there is approx 2 mins left and if that 2 mins happens to be 2 mins + whatever it does not matter.

    Personally, I would given my colleague the opportunity to blow for the PC if thiat is the 'greater benefit'. Presumably my colleague will know that 99% of the time it may not be an advantage playin this when it is so close to time and so will award the PC. However if he doesen't, then I agree i wuill eventually have to signal time and I agrree as the PC should not be awarded after the whistle.for time. Thats why if I.m the non engaged umpire who is also in charge of time prefer not to blow unless I have toi ie if he subsequently looses the advantage or an offence for which a PC cannot be awarded occurs.
     
  18. johnreiss

    johnreiss FHF Top Player

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    For me SPOT ON as always!! Can we agree that it would have been 'wiser' for your colleague not to blow at all on the basis of my earlier post - re players would'nt know.... = less opportnity to dispute the call = less hassle.
     
  19. aussieump

    aussieump FHF All Time Great
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    In your case Keely you were aware of the time left on the clock by your watch, not the timing officials watch, I would have also been allowing the play of the ball, as a genuine scoring chance was occurring.

    The first foot was play on, so was the second as neither player had gained benefit or intentionally/voluntarily played the ball, from the ball having struck their foot, no corner to be awarded was there? just play on. No danger from the ball lobbing gently to a lone attacker in clear space, so once again it was play on no corner.

    In all Keely I say well umpired very good no calls

    Was not the OP taking about a PC being signalled by your co-ump and they were playing advantage as time elapsed.

    As you were not the official time keeper in this instance are you sure the time was correct and that your co-umpire had not allowed the clock to overrun by a mere two or three seconds. In a centrally timed game things may have been different as the hooter controls time not your co-ump.
     
  20. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    I forgot to say this earlier:
    In my pre-match chat I have usually said that if the play is in the circle during the last few seconds, the engaged umpire should decide when time is up....saves all of this ...you should both be timing, anyway, so why should the disengaged umpire have to blow?

    Of course, not all of my colleagues have seen the logic :rolleyes:

    I don't want my colleague blowing for time if the ball is in my circle.
    If you are playing advantage and time runs out, you simply award the PC.
     

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