Management & Communication Blowing in the other umpires circle

Discussion in 'Outdoor Umpiring Questions & General Chat' started by Pippinn, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. Mdevanshk

    Mdevanshk FHF Star Player

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    No specific mention of whistles but th decision making is defined:

    11.3 Each umpire is responsible for decisions on free hits in the circle, penalty corners, penalty strokes and goals in one half of the field
     
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  2. John Lee

    John Lee FHF Newbie

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    So the rules specifically determine what part of the field an umpire is responsible for then. Would appear discussion closed. Does it mention which half? Measured from back line to back line or sideline to sideline?
     
  3. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

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    This is firmly implied by the rules. You want especially Umpiring 3.3.b-c and 3.4.d, applied to Playing The Game 11.2 and thereafter 11.3 as well.

    What that looked liked, historically, was the literal half of the field: this side of the centre line is A, that side of the centre line is B, and stay out otherwise.

    Modern umpiring splits it on a rough diagonal that curves to match the circle arc along the way. There's grey zone along it, broader in the middle of the field and tighter/more precise in the corner near the circles.
    The exact proportion of responsibility in the grey zone is determined by mobility and preference of the umpires. Before the match by talking if they're sensible, during it by force if they're not.
     
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  4. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    @John Lee: Rules 11.2 and 11.3 say an umpire can blow anywhere on the pitch, except they can't blow for anything in the far circle.

    11.2 gives each umpire primary responsibility in one half of the field - in practice the dividing line, between areas where each umpire is nearest or with the best chance to see, is roughly corner-to-corner. In their own area, the rule gives an umpire first (primary) chance to blow, but the other umpire can step in and blow what needs blowing, once they are aware the other umpire could not have seen it, and is not signalling or calling play on for advantage or not-an-offence. In the grey area between, it is convention that the umpire with play coming towards them has first go with the decision (primary responsibility).

    11.3 gives each umpire sole responsibility for decisions in one circle (their circle) - in the other circle they are not responsible for decisions; that is: they must leave it to the other umpire and not blow. If the umpire in the other circle misses something important, that umpire will soon enough pick up the discomfort of some players, and will look across for help. Then the support umpire can support with a signal of what was seen, and the umpire whose circle it is uses that to make the decision which is their responsibility.

    Umpires are told they should chat before the game. Rules 11.2 and 11.3 are what they should chat about. Cover that first - nothing else is quite so important.
     
    #44 Diligent, Oct 10, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  5. John Lee

    John Lee FHF Newbie

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    Cheers, handy to know what the actual rule is. As a youngster I was taught to use the diagonal method and if you see an infringement in the other umpires area point your arm in the direction of the free hit and the other umpire can figure out if its relevant or not. Only blow the whistle if it an obvious infringement the other umpire may have been blindsided too. Don't blow PC's from the half way line. Seems communication and understanding between umpires is the key rather than any nuances in the rules. Seems a lot of comments on this thread refer to the use of radio's. In my grade umpires use the radio to check on horse racing results and footy scores.
     
  6. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

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    @Diligent has the wording always been thus? Until I swotted up for the purposes of making a contribution to this thread, I could remember that the circle and halves of the pitch were covered under the same paragraph. But as you demonstrated and as is clear in the rule book, different levels of certainty are given to the different areas now. But I am certain that it has not always been that way.
     
  7. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

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    It's been that way for at least the last three editions, based on reading the last two and remembering the one before. The phrasing is along the lines of "each umpire has primary responsibility for ... one half ... and sole responsibility ... for one circle."
     
  8. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

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    Don't stand there signalling if your colleague missed something, players react to it and may stop if they've also seen it. Only signal when your colleague looks up, or stop time after the event to discuss it. Don't blow PCs for your colleague anyway - good umpires will pick up a big whistle for a foul in the 23m and convert to a PC

    If you agree with colleague beforehand, you can blow stuff in their D but only do defence stuff or if something crazy happens like a fight or injury, leave attack stuff to your colleague as he may be playing a great advantage which you didn't see
     
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  9. Krebsy

    Krebsy FHF All Time Great

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    I think this is an excellent point and something worthy of a chat before the game. You can have an agreement to just trust each other on long sharp blows in their 23 and upgrade it without question. It works well and lets the players see you are working directly together.
     
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  10. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Not exactly 'always', but very like it for at least half a century.

    In 1968 it was: 19(a) There shall be two umpires. Each umpire shall take one half of the ground for the whole game. In addition, each shall take the whole of the side-line, but shall give corner decisions (long and short) for his own half of the ground only.
    By 1986 3(c) was almost what we have today, except that each umpire was "solely" responsible for all of one side line and back line, and "solely" responsible for PS, PC, goals, corners (long), and free hits in one circle.
    Current wording arrived with the 2004 Rules of Hockey.
     
  11. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    No. No. No. You absolutely must resist this urge, and must, must, must WAIT until the engaged umpire looks to you for assistance. Be patient, but be ready.

    If, in the end, the look for help never comes, then you must leave it. If the attackers in the circle have been unable to alert your colleague to the mistake you think you've seen, then neither will your silent signal from 50 metres distant. You will be standing there like a lemon while play continues. Try to get out of that one by blowing your whistle, and either you further undermine your colleague's fragile confidence, or they were sure enough of their judgement to offer you some words you'd rather not hear. And play restarts with a bully (6.3 time or play stopped and no penalty awarded), which nobody wants. What a mess....

    Do not do it! :mad:

    Exception: when you have had that pre-match chat about how to work together, and your colleague is confident enough of you to tell you, explicitly, that you may blow a FHD in their circle. And when you trust them enough to tell them, explicitly, that they may do the same. Just for free hits out, though. That's all. Got that?
     
    #51 Diligent, Oct 10, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  12. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

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    Bonus points for standing in the middle of the pitch pointing for a PC
     
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  13. Pippinn

    Pippinn FHF Starter

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    Out of curiosity, I normally blow my whistle and signal a PC if my partner does a big blow in my 23, is there a better way of doing it?
    My reasoning behind doing it that way is to alert the players that I've interpreted the blow as a deliberate foul. However, I'm always happy to fix things I'm doing badly.



    Sent from my VFD 710 using Tapatalk
     
  14. Pippinn

    Pippinn FHF Starter

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    I'm a guilty lemon for sticking my arm up when it's not asked for

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  15. Nij

    Nij FHF All Time Great

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    This is excellent coordinated umpiring, and one of the things I sometimes ask is that they keep their whistle going for a FHA that they want to turn into a PC. Keep doing it whenever you feel you're in the same situation.
     
  16. Gingerbread

    Gingerbread FHF All Time Great

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    If you've agreed stuff like that before in a pre match chat or doing appointed games, it should be clear from the big whistle it will be a PC. If not immediately given, THEN consider giving your colleague the signal, don't just blow and give it without checking for them.
     
  17. SPetitt

    SPetitt FHF All Time Great

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    When you are umpiring 5th XI (or lower) men's games with a colleague who admits, pre-game, to having little rules knowledge and no confidence, some of the above advice may need to be modified :rolleyes:
     

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