Ball played on the ground by gk with glove and lifted into attacker's shin

Discussion in 'PS and Goalkeeping' started by Grumpy, May 19, 2008.

  1. Grumpy

    Grumpy FHF Legend

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    One for discussion

    The ball is crossed for the right wing into the circle, 5 meters out, maybe at a slight angle going towards the 23. Attacker collects the ball on the open side but the ball breaks fowards the goals.
    The keeper has dived and plays the ball forward with the gloved hand.
    The ball is lifted and hits the attacker about 1/2 way up his shin.

    What do you give?
     
  2. Gilly

    Gilly FHF Legend

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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    Play on unless the defence are disadvantaged when FHD.

    The only consideration is danger and I cannot see that a GK could generate enough pace on the ball with a glove to endanger anyone at half shin height.
     
  3. patpat

    patpat FHF Legend

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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    FHD as even though the ball was raised by the keeper I would say that mid shin isn't dangerous. And the blocker is just treated the same as if it came off a stick.
    Gilly I would say that the defense would be disadvantaged due to the fact I would guess that the attacker could play the ball quicker than any defender could get to it, if it came off the attackers shin. Also the rebound off the keeper has been stopped. I'd say thats a disadvantage

    If I was the keeper and a PC was called against me for doing that I might be raging.
     
  4. Grumpy

    Grumpy FHF Legend

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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    The GK made a forward movement with the gloved hand and swiped at the ball, will this make a difference?
     
  5. patpat

    patpat FHF Legend

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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    Nope. We can now play the ball with any part of our body with force as long as it is part of a goal saving action. lol

    Just don't ask what a goal saving action is ;).
     
  6. Grumpy

    Grumpy FHF Legend

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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    Have noticed that this has been discussed in an earlier post.
    It can be put in the trash bin if everybody wants.
     
  7. nerd_is_the_word

    nerd_is_the_word FHF All Time Great

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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    If you want, it didnt really add anything to the forum, and since your query has been answered and there are already a few other topics on the discussion we dont need it
     
  8. John

    John FHF Legend

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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    the goal keeper lifts the ball (allbeit not very much) in an uncontrolled fashion into an attacker. How is this anything other than a short corner? Assuming of course you have allowed enough advantage to see whether the attacker can score.
     
  9. nerd_is_the_word

    nerd_is_the_word FHF All Time Great

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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    1/2 way up his shin? i would be very hesitant to call that dangerous
     
  10. Grumpy

    Grumpy FHF Legend

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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    Not sure what the correct answer as if a defender lifted the ball that high and hit a forwards shin a short is likely judging by the EHL finals.
    Its the consistacy that is required i think.
    Unfortunately or fortunately umpires are human and have a fraction of a second to make decisions. They make them in good faith.
     
  11. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    There are several ways it's not a PC:

    No rule against "in an uncontrolled fashion", although that is often a factor when there is danger.
    1/2 shinpad is not dangerously high, and the attacker is hardly in danger from a rebound off the GK onto a shinpad.
    If the ball hits the attacker's leg before they have a chance to move then there's probably no offence...
    ... so the GK cannot have "forced the attacker to offend".

    If the whistle goes in this situation then someone 'gets something' for nothing; PC, FHD, whatever...
    Better to call "Nothing there!" and have them play on.
    Save the whistle for real offences.
     
  12. Grumpy

    Grumpy FHF Legend

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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    The ball ran off the back line and hit out give. I have no problem with that at all.
     
  13. John

    John FHF Legend

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    Re: Ball played on the ground by gk with glove

    Sorry dilligent, with respect to the uncontrolled fashion I wasn't looking for a rule per se, but rather suggesting that the element of danger is potentially higher. There is no mention of how fast the ball is going. You could argue that the fact the ball is mid shin it is still dangerous.

    Afterall, if I take a quick sixteen from inside the the D and it hits an attacker mid shin I can expect two things, 1. It will hurt them a lot regardless of their shinpads and 2. a short corner will be given against me.

    Still, hockey schmockey.
     
  14. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    Was it dangerous? umpire's opinon (I'd think probably not. )
    but if so, PC
    Not dangerous? then is it a manufactured foul by the keeper? I'd think not.
    Offence by the forward? Since the leg contact was clearly involuntary and the ball went out of play he gained no advantage. No offence. 16h

    BUT NOT Advantage in LIEU OF PC. That could only occur if the attacker retained possession.. ie had gained advantage from the ball/leg contact......... an offence.
     
  15. Hockeyjon

    Hockeyjon FHF Regular Player

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    Deegum's right IMO
    If the ball comes off the attachers shin to his advantage then essentially is is given fior a 'foot' against him. I would only play advantage in this scenario if the defence had clearly gained controlled possesion of the ball, however I think most defenders would be looking for the FHD if attachers were closing them down.
    The only way you could blow this foul against the keeper is if you felt he deliberatly played the ball into the attackers leg... Whats the offence for a deliberate offence inside the circle by the defending team? Even Alan Sugar would have problems selling that one!!!
     
  16. A Tidewater Ump

    A Tidewater Ump FHF Newbie

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    I'd give the GK the "dumb move/play" card, why didn't they position themselves to play the ball more effectively? ??? In the original post, the ball was still quite high in the circle coming in.... plenty of time to do something other than dive :yes:

    As to danger, I agree with the thought of "play on", it's quite difficult to create danger mid-shin when propelling the ball with a blocker from the ground.
     

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