A flipped lid

Discussion in 'PS and Goalkeeping' started by serbulator, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. serbulator

    serbulator FHF Regular Player

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    Alright, this is somewhat related to the topic that is going on on the goalie zone. In a game, I took a shot off my helmet and because I wear my helmet rather loose, it goes flying off and lands on the back line next to the left post of my goal. After the ball rebounded off my head, an opposing attacker took the ball and shot it at the corner my helmet was in. Surprisingly, the ball did not go in the net but glanced off the helmet and went out of bounds. The ref, however, ruled it a goal. After arguing with him a little, I got a yellow card and had to serve that penalty and the decision remained the same. Was this the right call?
     
  2. fh4me2000

    fh4me2000 FHF Regular Player

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    I hope you meant the ball rebounded off you helmet and not you head ;)
    And what was your argument?
    ps: It's not nice to argue with umpires :yes:
    11.8 ;)
     
  3. serbulator

    serbulator FHF Regular Player

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    Really, I didn't notice :rolleyes: MY arguement was at least give a stroke instead of a goal, I was thinking more along the lines of when a defender's foot stops the ball on a shot that's going toward the goal.
     
  4. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    It cannot correctly be given as a goal, because the ball didn't enter the goal, and the only situation where a 'penalty goal' may correctly be awarded is at a penalty stroke.
    In general, when the ball hits an object on the playing surface, the rules say Play On.

    However, it was a goal, because that's what the umpire (not the ref, please!) awarded :yes:

    As has been said in reply to "That was never a goal, Ump/Ref!"..... "Check the results in the paper tomorrow, Sonny!" ...... nowadays "Check the results website this evening!".

    There are, of course, occasions when things happen which are not specifically covered by the rules, and umpires then have to remember they are 'arbiters of fair play' and give the decision they regard as 'fairest'.
     
  5. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Agreed with justin.

    The umpire must have felt you were not in danger after you lost your helmet and tried to play advantage, choosing not to stop the play and award a PC against you for playing without your helmet. Against all odds the best result for the attacking team was accidentally thwarted by the very foul you committed. It was technically incorrect to award the goal, but very just in the situation.

    Strap up your lid next time.
     
  6. woodpecker

    woodpecker FHF Starter

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    Yeah, would have to say that the umpire made the wrong choice in calling the goal but there is no point arguing, THEY ARE ALWAYS RIGHT...
    Personally I would have called a short corner the minute your helmet came off, or a stroke when the ball hit the helmet on the line.
    Sounds like you deserved the yellow card though lol
     
  7. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    And was it the helmet that committed the foul?

    My point being that it's a foul for the GK to be involved in the play without their helmet (4.4(a)), it's a foul to throw an object in the path of play (9.17), but it's not a foul for the ball to strike an object on the pitch (11.8).
     
  8. serbulator

    serbulator FHF Regular Player

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    Yeah, I probably did.
     
  9. johnreiss

    johnreiss FHF Top Player

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    Agree with everyone that technically it cannot be goal as the ball hass not entered goal. Again, technically a PS cannot be given as there no offence of the ball accidentally hitting a piece of equipment However, in the spirit of the game...... . Reminds me of something that happened many years ago (before thje days of a designated "sin bin area" and offenders were usually placed behind their own goal.

    The secenario is a defender is yellow carded and is therefore behind his own goal. An attacker in a one on one with the gk. Forward beats him and pushes the ball tyowrds the empty net. GK is flat on his **** at the top of ther circle and no other defender is within 20 yds. Defnder who has been yellowed runs on to the pitch, stops the ball going in and hits it towards the umpire who is standing on the pitch.

    What did the umpire do? Answer, picked the ball up , through it in the goal and gave a goal (ball had not gone out of play and is therefore "still live". The fact that it was 'deflected' by the umpire makes, no difference. Tthe fact that the ball now has entered the goal, the umpire can give the goal. Then he red carded the defender. For me, great (if selective) umpiring. The defender didn't get away with an obvious attempt to cheat!
     
  10. scottmcn

    scottmcn FHF Starter

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    If the attacker was a few inches from the goalline, I would let them continue and score the goal - otherwise I the moment the helmet came off, for the sake of safety I would immediatly give a PC.

    For the sake of discussion, possible justification for a PS: If the defender commits a foul in the D which prevents a probable goal then PS...in this case the goalkeeper playing without a helmet is a foul. Also if play had to be stopped with the attacker about to shot (with a probable chance of scoring) then surely the goalkeeper having no helmet has prevented a probable goal - therefore PS? Although I admit even Del Boy would have a hard job selling that one to the players!
     
  11. jamesev

    jamesev FHF Top Player

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    So is that a none deliberate foul that definitely prevented a goal
     
  12. Grumpy

    Grumpy FHF Legend

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    To put another slant on this topic.
    Do not believe a goal should have been given as if a shin guard or a dog or anything stopped the ball entering the goal it is play on.
    Now if my keeper had the helmet so loose that it came off no matter what the circumstances and the result was a goal, sorry dropped until you can play with it correctly fitted.
    Harsh you may all think but a goal was scored, you got sent off.
    Plus for safety what happened if the player had shot at the head and hit you. In split seconds the umpire cannot blow on safety grounds.
     
  13. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    why on earth do you wear your helmet so loose that it can be knocked off that easily???

    that's just crazy.
    what if you dived and caught the chin on the ground, if it's that loose it'd knock it off - then you're prime target for a ball to head.

    madness

    you only get one head! do your helmet up! :no:
     
  14. serbulator

    serbulator FHF Regular Player

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    My helmet normally is done up. However, that day, some one had to borrow my kit and apparently, they had a bigger head and I only had a minute before the game to get ready. The only problem that I had was that the ref should of called it a goal right after it hit the helmet, not when it was already out of bounds.
     
  15. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    Would you prefer( if your team was in attack) that the umpire blew immediately (with the ball on your attackers stick open goal) and tahen dediced it should have been play on, and called a bully ? :no: :)

    probably he was trying to work out what the hell to do !!! :eek:

    Do you know how many rules to consider there?
    not to mention things like did the ball cross the line?
    Was it deliberate/accidental?
    Dammit! whaat's the rule about helmets falling off?
     
  16. RushMan

    RushMan FHF All Time Great

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    Helmet falls off after being hit by a ball - Silly keeper for not ensuring it stays on.

    Ball hits helmet and goes OUT - Silly forward for hitting the Helmet

    Goal awarded - Silly Umpire as the ball did not enter the goal so how can he possibly award a goal.

    Player sent off - Silly umpire trying to justify a wrong decision with another wrong decision.

    End result - score counts, umpire will be spoken about for years, teams will have something to talk about for years, we have something to discuss and serbulator has to buy a round of drinks for getting a yellow card.

    "It is only a game"
     
  17. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Well-covered in this thread. And no more posting for you on a Saturday morning, your typos were even more atrocious than usual! ;)
     
  18. deegum

    deegum FHF Legend

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    i
    i twsa a retorikal question


    What tupos?
    :growl:


    :yes:
     
  19. g9

    g9 FHF Legend

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    don't worry deegum...the rest of us knew it was a rhetorical question! :yes:
    And I was thinking, yeah, spot on...that was probably EXACTLY what was going on in that instance!
     
  20. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    which is it?
    or this actually one of these stories that didn't happen but sounds good so you tell it anyway? ;)

    it's an interesting scenario from an umpiring point of view anyway...
     

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