A few questions for umpires

Discussion in 'Game Management & Communication' started by ArchusXV, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. ArchusXV

    ArchusXV FHF Regular Player

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    School game today, started out okay became clear the one of opposition's umpires (they provided both) was biased.

    Not giving feet against them
    Making us take what was a clear sixteen from the corner of the pitch because it went out for a sideline
    Blew us for obstruction every time they played the ball passed and then ran into us
    50/50 went to them everytime

    anyway i started asking the umpire what every infraction was for and looking over every time the whistle was blown

    later in the second half a goalmouth scramble and a cross from the byline hit a foot

    "flick" says MR umpire
    "what was that umpire?" i said
    "anymore of your backchat and your off, ive had enough of your questions and dirty looks" he replies


    another incident towards the end of the game, me and my CB were asking how long left and he just point blank ignored (ball is up the other end of teh pitch so its not his territory he had a second to check and give the time.

    whether he was biased or not that is just damn right rude and i didnt put up with it, only a calming word from my centre back stopped me giving him both barrels for it (which would probably result in my dismissal form the pitch)

    general thoughts....
     
  2. controller

    controller FHF Legend

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    First of all, if you were the captain you had a right to ask him what the decision was for?

    If not, then I am afraid either your captain asks the question or you have to go and accept it. Now, in my opinion only, these are the kind of umpires that need help and coaching because they ruin the up and coming players into the Men's & ladies games and that is why discipline is falling.
     
  3. Goalie64

    Goalie64 FHF All Time Great

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    We will all have had umpires who are not the best (for whatever reason), but they are who you have for your game, so you will just have to get on with it. If you have a complaint, then raise it formally with your relevant authority.

    Commenting on a general basis only.

    When I'm umpiring I am happy for any player to ask me what a decision was for - as long as they ask me in a polite fashion.

    If a player asks me every time I make a call, then that is another matter. If I am responding to every question on every decision then I will be unable to follow the game and do my job as an umpire.
    This is also (in my view) very easy to perceive as dissent - Archus, do you agree?

    As such I would probably ask the player that I didn't have the time to deal with their constant questions (but happy to talk after the game) and ask them to desist.
    If they kept on, then that's what the control ladder is for.

    The youngest age group I umpire is BUCS/BUSA and there I'm happy to say that I haven't had to move past "up 10" or reversed a decision before the message has got across.
     
  4. justin-old

    justin-old FHF Legend

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    Goalie64 makes, IMO, a very important point for players to note.....it is sensible to remember these are the umpires you've got, so you should try to get the best from them.

    Constant questioning will not only p155 them off, it is also likely to upset their concentration and make them worse.

    It's best to concentrate on playing to the best of your ability and let the umpires try to do the same.

    If an umpire appears to have a particular rule which he/she continually 'mis-applies', it is sensible to try to 'work around' it. This requires good coaching and captaincy.
     
  5. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    the best way to stop yourself from questioning...questionable calls...is to encourage everyone else to not do it.

    by having the umpire THINK your conjenial....then when it comes time to ask that crucial decision....you will know an answer.

    I have NEVER reversed a decison based on a discussion with a player....and I dont think I know any other umpires that would either.

    important thing to remember is. The umpire may be plain rude...obnoxious...call an unfair game. But YOU will not achieve anything except a swift sending off by asking all the time.

    you will never have the umpire think he is being a jerk by your talking to them. these sorts of umpires are unrepentant and seem to like the ire they recieve.

    My suggestion is....play YOUR game...save the energy for the field and not some clown with a whistle. Like Justin said....if you know what he calls everytime...its WAY better than inconsistant calls...even if he calls it against your team only.
     
  6. Twister

    Twister FHF Regular Player

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    I had the captain approach me at half time in a game recently insisting that my colleague was mis-interpreting the aerial ball, blowing everything in favour of the defence.

    A asked him what he expected me to do about it, and pointed out that as they knew this, and knew the outcome, they should choose whether or not they continued to use the aerial - as they were fully aware of what would happen...

    "Oh yeah, I hadn't thought of that..." said the captain.

    Problem solved.
     
  7. nerd_is_the_word

    nerd_is_the_word FHF All Time Great

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    ok first off archusXV, be very wary of calling umpires biased, a lot of umpires here will be upset about it. even if his calls were bad, it is very easy for players to forget the bad calls that went their way and remember the bad calls that went the other way.

    secondly, doesnt matter how bad the umpires are, you questioning every call and giving bad looks etc. will get you nowhere.

    thirdly, if the umpire doesnt respond when you ask a question like that, just walk right up to them and ask, dont be rude or aggressive about it, but when you are right next to them they cant ignore you.
     
  8. controller

    controller FHF Legend

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    I am sorry if a player done your third option, I would card him straight away, players have to learn that the captain is in control of the team on the field of play and it should be him/her to do and not anyone else.

    In regard to the first point, yes, some people might object but so far no one has!

    :p
     
  9. nerd_is_the_word

    nerd_is_the_word FHF All Time Great

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    controller, either you have misunderstood me, or that is scary.

    Im not talking about being intimidating in any way. Just asking them how much time is left in the same way you would ask a friend what the time is.

    If you are serious about any player getting carded for asking a question if they arent the captain, even one about how much time is left, then i think thats way too far
     
  10. Goalie64

    Goalie64 FHF All Time Great

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    Just a guess - (and yes it is, in my view petty to ignore someone like that) but as the umpire had effectively said they were not prepared to speak with you at all (and if they did you were going to get carded), that by ignoring your question on time, you were able to stay on the pitch.
    Your CB asking as well - another matter - who knows?
     
  11. ArchusXV

    ArchusXV FHF Regular Player

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    thanks for your helps guys, im sure next time ill handle it in a slightly more mature fashion

    we dont have an official captain as such because im one of teh three senior players on the pitch we all share the role.
     
  12. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    I believe the rules actually state that each team must have a captain - clearly identified with an armband or similar...

    if you don't have an official captain maybe you should look at getting an armband and rotating it round the three of you from match to match?
     
  13. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    HAHHA Philthy.....

    try telling that to high school girls in the US.
     
  14. philthy

    philthy FHF All Time Great

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    yes, well, US high schools appear to have a whole world of different rules!
     
  15. Grumpy

    Grumpy FHF Legend

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    Lets not knock their ideas as at least they try to make the game exciting in a very competative market for sport, which is America. Having spoken read about their recent games and championships in America. I would rather see what they did to compete and try and expand the sport rather than knock it.
     
  16. g9

    g9 FHF Legend

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    ??? No, actually here in the US we do designate captains with arm bands (though most commonly they are worn at the top of the sock/shinguard). They are the only ones allowed to address the umpire on field. And if there is a problem with not enough bands, the kids are not going to be the ones agreeing to share, it's me as a coach doling it out to the appropriate player. Not that problematic at all...in fact we just rotated the job at Festival amongst the girls on my club team and it was no big deal. What's different about this then?
     
  17. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Hi guys. Can someone please explain to me where the idea that it's a rule of hockey that only the captain can speak to the umpires has come from? It's appeared in this thread and another one in the umpiring section over the last few days.

    Anyone can speak to the umpires. The captain needs to control his/her players and s/he may ask them not to talk to the umpires to help in that regard; but there's no rule forbidding them from doing so.
     
  18. zippytime

    zippytime FHF Legend

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    I think I would get bored umpiring a game if only the two captains were allowed to talk to me ;)
     
  19. foozbear

    foozbear FHF Regular Player

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    well I cant count the amount of times I was calling for a captain and the girls told me they didnt have one....maybe I was unfortunate to not get you team.

    even more alarming is that an umpire actually calls a captain over it seems...they all looked very confused when asked to come over so I could explain the whole....interchange on a penalty corner.....coach abuse....lifted balls.....

    the idea of the captain is to really provide the compass for the team. Thats what I have always associated with Capatians...I guess I have to get used to Nth American standards.
     
  20. g9

    g9 FHF Legend

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    that makes my other coach and I sound incredibly anal...it's one of the first things we talked about, who should be our "speaking captain" for the games out there! Well, maybe we are off beat in a good way, but we get that you need a conduit for communication to the rest of the team, and we look to the one we choose to captain as indeed that kind of "compass"...someone calm enough to not fly off on the team or the umpire!
    And no, zippytime, I didn't mean to suggest that NO ONE is allowed to talk other than the captains, but that for things like questioning a call or taking warnings from the umpire to the team and bench, that goes through the captain only. As an umpire myself, I enjoy some banter with the teams, but sad to say there are many umpires who can't tolerate anyone talking to them and any question at all becomes an affront to their authority.
    Likewise, I have a kid that should never be allowed to talk to umpires because she always sounds accusatory...it works both ways!
     

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