10.3c 'propel forcefully' - how long is a piece of string ?

Discussion in '2011 Offical FIH Rules' started by Gr.ump, Jan 27, 2012.

  1. Kilmory

    Kilmory Administrator
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    But if we are all doing what the rule makers want us to be doing, surely the rule is fit for purpose? I, and it would seem none of the senior umpires who have contributed, see any problem with the caveat of forceful and it seems to be working when I go out and play on Saturdays.

    I must say I find the tactic of picking a rule and trying to pick holes in the wording strangely familiar and very worrying.
     
  2. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Mmm... me too. And the assertion that

    seems familiar.
     
  3. Gr.ump

    Gr.ump FHF Newbie

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    Silly me, I thought this was a discussion forum. I have no idea what is meant by strangely familiar or tactic but I do recognise a put down when I see one. Finally if you are a new level 1 umpire and you read this rule then there is every chance of not making a decision that would be right and there are a lot more level 1's out there than there are senior umpires. When will they get to meet "senior" umpires who will explain the error of their ways? On that note I withdraw
     
  4. kaiwawao

    kaiwawao FHF Regular Player

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    Each country has their own way of developing umpires who want to be developed, "junior" umpires can get coaching and mentoring from senior ones sometimes through an umpire association or similar but at the lower levels it's unlikely you'd get the situation of the hard pad clearing the ball down the line.

    An interesting offshoot of this is the experiment / suggestion (I forget which) about allowing playing above the head, if this was allowed and the goalie made a "forceful" clearance that was a foul, there would be a solid case for a stroke if an attacker was nearby, hopefully this is considered if the experiment is continued.
     
  5. Kilmory

    Kilmory Administrator
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    Yes Gr.ump, a discussion. The art of communication and exchange of ideas. Not asking a question but then refusing to accept the answer just because it wasn't the one you wanted.

    No one else has a problem with the rule and how it is written. You asked how it was blown and several senior umpires shared their experience with you. That's where most people say thank you and add it to their skill set, not start saying the rule is wrong because that's not how they read it.

    When will Level 1 Umpires get access to senior umpires for guidance? Well this Forum seems to work well for many of us, but if it's not for you then I guess you will have to keep looking.
     
  6. Diligent

    Diligent FHF All Time Great
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    This moderator is thoroughly exasperated by the deteriorating tone of this topic but is at a loss deciding what to cut, move, or whatever. So...

    Going back to the last sensible question...
    If you made a decision and let players (or at least the GK) know what you decided, then you/they should be comfortable with that. If you couldn't decide, then it's the 'lack of decision' that should make you uncomfortable, and leave players questioning how much else you are missing.

    In my earlier post, I suggested what would be clearly 'too forceful' and clearly 'ok'. It's not the only rule with a big grey area in between, but it is seldom that anyone is disadvantaged by the 'perhaps too forceful', so you hardly ever need to actually penalise it. But each middling one is a chance to remind the GK of the rule - "that was quite forceful; not so hard next time" - and draw enough attention to it for others (especially other GK and umpire) to know that you told the GK that.

    You'd be very unlucky to get another 'forceful push' in the same game. But having drawn the line, it will be no surprise if you have to penalise, and even better a chance to say "that's more like it".
     
  7. Gr.ump

    Gr.ump FHF Newbie

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    Thanks Diligent and others for answers at start of thread. You are spot on with the uncomfortable suggestion and reading the rule after the games didn't provide any comfort. Like the suggestion for the future.
     
  8. cbenpora

    cbenpora FHF Starter

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    If I am allowed to "Kick" the ball, without distance restrictions, but still subject to "Dangerous", why not with Stick or Hands. ???
     
  9. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Because the rules say you can't?
     
  10. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Reminder, again, that the restriction on forcefully propelling the ball is only in regards to using the hands. The stick is fine. Please see the full text of rule 10.3.
     
  11. redumpire

    redumpire FHF All Time Great
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    Oops, yes, good point Keely. :oops:
     
  12. Kilmory

    Kilmory Administrator
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    So this relates really to the left hand I guess. Do the same rules apply to the right hand, as if it hadnt hit the hand it would have hit the stick therefore no limitations? Or am I just trying to be too cheeky?
     
  13. keely

    keely FHF Legend

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    Trying or not, you're succeeding. ;)
     

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